___________________
Keep It Simple!

quote:

Originally posted by Endlesswave Legal eh? How exactly is it that the US has PROOF, factual and hard proof that Iraq has chemical/other weapons?

The invasion is LEGAL because the international community agrees that Saddam did not dissarm (Resolution 1 passed recently in the U.N. security council).

Under the terms of surrender from the Gulf War (the first one), Saddam must remove his weapons of mass destruction or they will be forced to do so.

10 years later Saddam still has not removed his weapons of mass destruction and is failing to co-operate with Arms Inspectors.

The violation of the peace treaty, in which Saddamn signed, gives the U.S. legality to invade Iraq.


If, however, the U.S. did introduce Resolution 2 to the U.N. security council and if it was vetoed by France (which it would), then invasion would be illegal. This is because Resolution 2 would set a time for Saddam to invade --against France's wishes. Setting a date for Iraq to dissarm would then mean that the U.N. coalition forces would be forced into conflict. France agrees that Iraq still has weapons of mass destruction, but does not want to be forced to invade. With a vetoed resolution 2, no one could invade Iraq without another resolution saying that they can.

But France told the U.S. that they would veto any motion to set a date for Iraq to be totally dissarmed. Therefor the U.S. decided not to introduce a Second Resolution in order to avoid the illegality issue all together.

___________________

Last edited by USMC_Greg on Mar-21-2003 at 03:20

quote:

Originally posted by Endlesswave Yes but they are destorying those missles that will carry or have those WMD aren't they? They can't just destroy them overnight just like that. I'm for disarmament (not regime change) which could be done without going to war and then from there see what will happen, if his behaviour constitutes regime change after then so be it.

Saddam had 10 years to Dissarm --He did not. Failing to disarm is a violation of the Peace Treaty from the First Gulf War. Thus, the current American invasion of Iraq is simply a continuation of the First Golf War.


As per the missles you are talking about;

The Sammoud (or whatever the fuck it's called) is a violation of the Peace treaty. Iraq was forced to limit the range of their missles, and yet they have these brand new missles that go well beyond the alotted range.
To sum up what happend;
arms inspectors found the missles, Iraq claim they want to negotiate re the missles, The World has already said they would not negotiate, Iraq gives the U.S. their reason to invade Iraq.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer aaaaaaaagh I wish fuckin cowboy Bush would just listen to the people around the world.I was just driving by the U.S embassy tonite and I saw thesehuge walls infront the building,so no fuckin damage could be done and even at 1:30AM in the morning there was like 6 police cars infront the building. so if anyone wants to burn down the building good luck!! the sad part about all this is that it wont be the last war before Bush is gone,my country(Iran) is the next target in bush's list I swear to god I will go back and defend my country,even if it means that I have to BLOW MYSELF UP to save my country!!!I've had enough of the american Guverment,it is time for someone to fuckin get rid of them for good. The world doesnt need a fuckin cowboy like fuckin Bush.Iam praying that all the muslims in the middle east to unite and fight America. Die Bush Die I will try to be there tommorow at the demonstration,see ya there

Bush does not answer to the people of the world --he answers only to Americans. And like what every good leader should do, is to listen to those people whom he represents.

Bush is protecting the interest of the U.S., both in terms of Oil and in terms of protecting itself from dangerous regimes.


As regard to your praying for muslims to unite, you are nuts. This conflict has nothing to do with Islam, so why bring that into this? Blow yourself up? I hope you were just ranting because you sound like a terrorist to me.

___________________

Currently, USA does not represent the world. The coalition forces are made up only of the US's and British troops. The are only 30 countries in that list, which Bush recently disclosed. United Nation consists of about 190 countries.

At the beggining, Bush claimed that Sadam had weapons of mass distruction. The Al Samund missiles are not WMD. In addition, they were in the process of being distroyed by the Iraqi's government when USA made it apperant that attack was eminent. Iraqi people are getting screwd, as the UN, and the rest of the world. The sad thing is, its being done by some monkey face redneck cowboy.

___________________
DiS

Geez, I didn't know that so many people would rather have ruthless dictators, and/or an oppressive church controlling their lives. I didn't know that so many people side with a man who TORTURES AND MURDERS HIS OWN PEOPLE. I didn't know that so many people hate a democratic government so much that they would rather have a brutal man as their leader. A leader who has lead his people to more than just one unsuccesful war. You people bitch and moan that all this war will do is hurt cilvilians. Let me ask you this. If Saddam stays in power, will he kill more innocent civilians than this war will? Yes. Is there the possibility that he can launch WMD at not only the USA, but also the rest of North America as well? Yes. If Saddam is removed from power, is that one less madman running around with an itchy trigger finger? Yes.

You guys hate Bush for one reason only. He is stronger-willed than anyone of you. Do you all agree that there is a problem in Iraq? Probably. Do you have ANY IDEAS as to how to solve this problem? I highly doubt it. I doubt Bush really cares if you people think he is a bad guy. Someone has to do something and I'm thankful that someone actually has the balls to do something about it rather than sitting around the UN room "fingering their assholes" if you will.


EDIT: Also, I feel I have to comment on everyone's skepticism about Bush's "Don't destroy your oil fields" comment.

Riddle me this. Once Saddam is deposed, Iraq will need to be rebuilt (not from damage from the war, but from the tens of years that Saddam has set them back). In order to do this, The Iraqi people will need money. They will need to export things to get money. Let me ask you this; what commodities does Iraq have to export? Let's see....Tender fruit? I doubt it. Automobiles? Probably not. soft, satiny lingerie?...I WISH!! The only thing they have of importance is oil. If theyd destroy thier oil fields, they are destroying the only chance they have of rebuilding their country. Of course every single country has interests in Iraq's oil but without oil, they can't buy it. Without oil, Iraqi's can't sell it and receive money. In short, without oil, The "innocent civilians" that you guys seem so willing to care about (and I do to. I don't want needless civilian deaths) will die.

___________________
"Laces out Dan!"-Ray Finkle

Last edited by Ray_Finkle on Mar-21-2003 at 03:31

quote:

Originally posted by USMC_Greg 10 years later Saddam still has not removed his weapons of mass destruction and is failing to co-operate with Arms Inspectors. But France told the U.S. that they would veto any motion to set a date for Iraq to be totally dissarmed. Therefor the U.S. decided not to introduce a Second Resolution in order to avoid the illegality issue all together.

Weapons of mass distruction were NOT found by the Arms inspectors. No proff exists that Iraq has those weapons. The U.N.'s general arm inspector Blix said that no evidence of missiles was found.

France france france...what happened to Russia and Germany?

___________________
DiS

quote:

Originally posted by DiS Currently, USA does not represent the world... At the beggining, Bush claimed that Sadam had weapons of mass distruction. The Al Samund missiles are not WMD. In addition, they were in the process of being distroyed by the Iraqi's government when USA made it apperant that attack was eminent.

1)The USA does not need permission from the U.N. more than once to invade Iraq. Like I said before, Iraq is violating the terms of surrender from the Gulf War. The USA now legally enabled to invade Iraq.

2)At no point did the U.N. ever pass a resolution prohibiting the USA from invading Iraq.

3)The U.N. agrees that evidence of WMD have been found in Iraq.

4)Al Sammoud missles are not WMD (and I never said they were), but they are still in violation of the Gulf War peace treaty. What I was implying is that in addition to the WMD found in Iraq, the Al Sammoud missles also violate the peace treaty.

___________________

Last edited by USMC_Greg on Mar-21-2003 at 03:44

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer what is this a dare?? you telling me you wouldnt defend your country if it was in danger?? you calling my comments dumb bcause I dont fuckin like Bush.If u really like that cowboy Bush why dont you go live there and support him. and yes Iam tough enough and if u dont believe me lets meetup someday and we'll chat and believe me bush is the last person on this earth that I would turn into.

WHAT IS YOUR COMMENT A THREAT???? You say "Your" country this your country that..... WHERE DO YOU LIVE??????? C A N A D A ! Like I've said before, if you feel so strongly about "YOUR" country, get your ass on a plane fly to Iran strap yourself up and go to war. I guess you don't think of the threat of Saddam harming "MY" country DO YOU??? He is a threat to the world Get mad at Saddam NOT BUSH you MORON!
BTW It would be my pleasure to "chat" with you.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by USMC_Greg 3)The U.N. agrees that WMD have been found in Iraq.

They did? Ahem...maybe I should start keeping track of news more carefully. I missed that bit. I do appologize if they in fact did agree that Iraq posses WMD. Must be a recent addition.

I did not mention "Legal" issues, but issue of RiGHT and WRONG! They might have the "legal" ability, but what BUSh is doing is in no way moral. Invading a country without the world's consent(the current conset that is) without any provocation what so ever. (Prove of WMD is not a legal issue, but an abiity to make fair judgment.)

Btw.......
Ladies and Gentelmen. Lets not forget that this form is meant to UNITE us. Overall, we are discussing this issues and analyzing is. Viewing different perspectives. In the end, no hard feelings must be hurbored nor feelings hurt. Afterall, we are TAs, the enlightened people.


P.S.Tips to the US Tourist.
If you'll travel outside the USA, by god, DO NOT tell anybody you're a citizen of the United States! Instead, say you're CANADIAN! Don't forget to say lots of "EHs" and claim that you live in an Igului.

___________________
DiS

Last edited by DiS on Mar-21-2003 at 03:45

quote:

Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee i lived in the middle east and we had Curches there...they dont suppress us or anything...

Well, you weren't living in Saudi Arabia, because the House of Saud will not allow any Christian churches in the Holy Land, in accordance with the wishes of the Islamists, who could turn on them given the opportunity.

___________________
This is what you came for.

quote:

Originally posted by DiS Weapons of mass distruction were NOT found by the Arms inspectors. No proff exists that Iraq has those weapons. The U.N.'s general arm inspector Blix said that no evidence of missiles was found. France france france...what happened to Russia and Germany?

Missles were found. I was watching the interview of the Iraqi (dood with the thick glasses--I think he's the the Iraqi rep to the U.N.) and he acknowledged the fact that Iraq has Al Sammoud missles. The Al Sammoud missles are long range missles that are contrary to the terms of the Peace Treaty signed following the Gulf War. This d00d said that Iraq was going to try to negotiate.

Blix may have said that they didn't find any missles containing WMD, but that doesn't mean Iraq don't have WMD or that Blix didn't find any WMD. The delivery system (the missle) is not required for the weapon to be a "wmd" (a nuke is still a nuke, whether or not it's inside a missle is irrelevant).

Failure to co-operate with U.N. arms inspectors is another breach. Why would they fail to cooperate if they weren't hidding anything?


As per france;
France is the country that was going to veto the 2nd Resolution. Germany and Russia were reluctant, but in the end they would support the Americans.

I talk about france alot because they are gutless and ungratefull for what the Americans have done for them. I guess the french want to stay out of conflict because they are weak and cowards --hell they have gotten raped all throughout their history. I think the only country that has gotten beat more than france is Egypt.

___________________