quote:

Originally posted by Yohan it's not going to hold. one rocket from hamas into israel and whole shitstorm starts again cynically thinking, i think more of propaganda/brownie points exercise for israel, just to say 'we're trying to be good guys' and i fully expect hamas to keep flinging rockets, just to piss of israel

Looking at details, what you're saying here looks about right. I hope you're entirely wrong, but it's more than likely you're right.

I don't like that they let up the fire without getting Shalit back, to be honest though.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#99CCEE]Heh. It's funny that there were no further replies from the originators

oh digi..here you go patting yourself in the back again...i totally missed this comment...orko can blow smoke up your ass but the reason i didn't reply to your post was because i didn't see the need to argue with you....

your original comment was that you didn't believe the US helped Israel as much as pro palestinians said..and you were proven wrong...then you took a couple of days to formulate some bs argument and came back with that post...i do respect that you are very good at your style of debate...you know how to muddle the waters so to speak..you had your facts skewed and you were proven wrong..so please don't try to make the people that proved you wrong look like a bunch of retards because they chose not to get involved in another debate over a dead issue...

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan it's not going to hold. one rocket from hamas into israel and whole shitstorm starts again cynically thinking, i think more of propaganda/brownie points exercise for israel, just to say 'we're trying to be good guys' and i fully expect hamas to keep flinging rockets, just to piss of israel

i think you're correct..they have to release the pressure at some point...but i don't believe the cease fire will last...this would be a perfect time for hamas to fucking stop launching the rockets...the only thing i worry about is..even if they do stop launching rockets... there are splinter groups that operate in the area as well...if any one of them launches anything...hamas would surely be held accountable...it seems like an impossible situation...

quote:

00:18 Hamas official: As long as IDF on Gazan soil, we`ll continue to shoot (Channel 10)

Yup, we're done.

quote:

Originally posted by gummybear ...the reason i didn't reply to your post was because i didn't see the need to argue with you....

Of course you didn't. You're always right, no matter what anyone else says.

quote:

your original comment was that you didn't believe the US helped Israel as much as pro palestinians said..and you were proven wrong...then you took a couple of days to formulate some bs argument and came back with that post...

Yes, you got it - I spent all that time sitting around formulating an argument. Not as if I have a job or a home or friends or anything like that to take care of.

quote:

i do respect that you are very good at your style of debate...you know how to muddle the waters so to speak..you had your facts skewed and you were proven wrong..so please don't try to make the people that proved you wrong look like a bunch of retards because they chose not to get involved in another debate over a dead issue...

If you believe that something was factually incorrect in that post, or that I drew an incorrect conclusion, then please, do tell. Simply blathering on about how I'm "muddying the waters" or somesuch nonsense might score you points with the converted, but to most others it will make you look like a "retard". It would have come across as a lot more dignified just to stay quiet.

The part about choosing "not to get involved in another debate over a dead issue" was the best - for most of this thread, you've done nothing but. Apparently an issue is only really "dead" whenever you don't have a counterargument.

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quote:

Originally posted by gummybear even if they do stop launching rockets... there are splinter groups that operate in the area as well...if any one of them launches anything...hamas would surely be held accountable...it seems like an impossible situation...

And whose fault is this exactly?

Israel has stopped Israeli radicals in their tracks before. If the Palestinian government can't exercise any measure of control over these people then they have failed in their primary duty and have no right to be governing.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut And whose fault is this exactly? Israel has stopped Israeli radicals in their tracks before. If the Palestinian government can't exercise any measure of control over these people then they have failed in their primary duty and have no right to be governing.

i would say that it would fall on the palestinian government and authority....i know you think i'm only one sided..but i'm not..i am willing to point fingers where they should be pointed.....what i meant by the roll of the eyes and the impossible situation comment is that the average person on both sides probably wants peace..it's the powers that be..once again on both sides ...that is fucking it up for the average folk in that region....and that is the frustrating part..it's a mess that seems impossible to clean up..and in the meantime, innocent people are dying...

i think i have shown several times in this thread that i'm not some homer that's just cheering for the muslim side...

as for not having counter arguments..i have learned a long time ago that sometimes it's best to agree to disagree....don't take the fact that i chose not to debate with you as some sort of sign of weakness....you're entitled to your opinions..who am i to try to change them....i have to deal with a fiance who never backs down from an argument..trust me..not something that i want ot repeat on here..

hmmm..i do recall saying i agreed with yohan on some of his points..even though we are on opposite sides....i am a lot more humble than you may think....

Last edited by gummybear on Jan-18-2009 at 03:06

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut And whose fault is this exactly? Israel has stopped Israeli radicals in their tracks before. If the Palestinian government can't exercise any measure of control over these people then they have failed in their primary duty and have no right to be governing.

fully agree that if the PLO can't control their population they shouldn't be the leaders. still does not preclude the use of force.

I know 100% of the palestinian population and their supporters would probably disagree with me, but I wouldn't mind full Israel control of all the square footage in that region as long as they were fair and equal to all race/religion and they kept the peace without extremely violent means. They should have a social welfare program where taxes from Jews should be used to support the poor Muslim families. I am optimistic (probably naively) that this would thwart at least some of the motives behind suicide bombers; to support their families financially.

And Israel shouldn't respond eye-for-an-eye on suicide attacks; they should continue to foster peace through peaceful means and at some point, I don't care how many more innocent jews have to die, THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE will sympathize and want to eradicate the scum themselves when they see how Israel is responding to violence with peace.

Until something like that happens, this is never gonna end. Instead, Israel is escalating their violent response.

Last edited by on Jan-18-2009 at 20:54

It is now time to send Israel to the international court and have them charged with numbers of crimes against humanity.

Cant wait.

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Israeli and Palestinian Children Killed
September 29, 2000 - Present

123 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,050 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (http://www.ifamericaknew.com/stats/children.html#source)

Israelis and Palestinians Killed
September 29, 2000 - Present

1,062 Israelis and at least 4,876 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000. (http://www.ifamericaknew.com/stats/deaths.html#source)

Israelis and Palestinians Injured
September 29, 2000 - Present

8,341 Israelis and 33,034 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000. (http://www.ifamericaknew.com/stats/injuries.html#source)

Daily U.S. Taxes to Israel and the Palestinians
Fiscal Year 2007

During Fiscal Year 2007, the U.S. gave more than $6.8 million per day to Israel and $0.3 million per day to the Palestinians. (http://www.ifamericaknew.com/stats/usaid.html)

UN Resolutions Targeting Israel and the Palestinians
1955 - 1992

Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by none. (http://www.ifamericaknew.com/stats/un.html)

Current Number of Political Prisoners and Detainees

1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (http://www.ifamericaknew.com/stats/prisoners.html)

Demolitions of Israeli and Palestinian Homes
1967 - Present

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 18,147 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967. (http://www.ifamericaknew.com/stats/homes.html)

Current Israeli and Palestinian Unemployment Rates

The Israeli unemployment rate is 7.3%, while the Palestinian unemployment is estimated at 23%. (http://www.ifamericaknew.com/stats/econ.html)

Current Illegal Settlements on the Otherʼs Land

Israel currently has 223 Jewish-only settlements and ʽoutpostsʼ built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land. (http://www.ifamericaknew.com/stats/settlements.html)

quote:

Diginut: And whose fault is this exactly? Israel has stopped Israeli radicals in their tracks before. If the Palestinian government can't exercise any measure of control over these people then they have failed in their primary duty and have no right to be governing.

Don't you believe that Israeli radicals exist? They could be soldiers or settlers. I truly believe they exist. Why doesn't Israel do something about the harassment and humiliation which Palestinians receive from Israelis? Why don't they do anything about Israeli radicals who spark hatred in Palestinians? Even relief volunteers have been beaten and killed on many occasions, including UN workers. This ongoing harassment causes some Palestinians to fight back for their rights and dignity. Israelis are quick to dismiss these people as 'Islamic militants' or 'terrorists' (what a word..). Regardless of who should take the blame of the war in Gaza, Israel's occupation of Palestine and their use of force on Palestinians is unjustifiable.



A typical day for many Palestinian families

Human shields

Last edited by jad on Jan-18-2009 at 21:04