im curious as to whether any of the conspiracy advocates ever read this paper? very easy to read, non technical

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN analysis of WTC1&2 collapse from a controlled demolition industry standpoint

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PKC, Bush signed Presidential Directive W199i (aka Executive Order W199I-WF-213589) prior to 9-11 , ordering intelligence acencies, including the FBI, to not investigate potential Al-Qaeda operatives. This was a signal for them to back off. Now why would he do that?

quote:

Bush took FBI agents off Laden family trail LONDON: America was itself to blame for the events of September 11 because the US administration was using "kid gloves" in tracking down Osama bin Laden and "other fanatics linked to Saudi Arabia", a special BBC investigation has alleged in a damning indictment of the two presidents Bush and American foreign policy. The report, which the BBC claimed was based on a secret FBI document, numbered 199I WF213589 and emanating out of the FBI’s Washington field office, alleged that the cynicism of the American establishment and "connections between the CIA and Saudi Arabia and the Bush men and bin Ladens" may have been the real cause of the deaths of thousands in the World Trade Centre attacks. The investigation, which featured in the BBC’s leading current affairs programme, Newsnight, said the FBI was told to "back off" investigating one of Osama bin Laden’s brothers, Abdullah, who was linked to "the Saudi-funded World Association of Muslim Youth (WAMY), a suspected terrorist organisation," whose accounts have still not frozen by the US treasury despite "being banned by Pakistan some weeks ago and India claiming it was linked to an organisation involved in bombing in Kashmir". Newsnight said there was a long history of "shadowy" American connections with Saudi Arabia, not least the two presidents Bush’s "business dealings" with the bin Ladens and another more insidious link revealed by the former head of the American visa section in Jeddah. The official said he had been concerned about visas issued to large numbers of "unqualified" men "with no family links or any links with America or Saudi Arabia", only to find out later that it "was not visa fraud" but part of a scheme in which young men "recruited by Osama bin Laden" were being sent for "terrorist training by the CIA" after which they were sent on to Afghanistan. In a reiteration of a now well-known claim by one of George W Bush’s former business partners, the BBC said he made his first million 20 years ago on the back of a company financed by Osama’s elder brother, Salem. But it added the more disturbing assertion that both presidents Bush had lucrative stakes along with the bin Ladens in Carlyle Corporation, a small private company which has gone on to become one of America's biggest defence contractors. The bin Ladens sold their stake in Carlyle soon after September 11, it said. American politicians later told the BBC programme that they rejected the accusation that the establishment had called the dogs of the intelligence agencies off the bin Ladens and the royal House of Saud because of a strategic interest in Saudi Arabia, which has the world's biggest oil reserve.

Source: Times of India

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

firstly, thats not an argument re anything related to 9/11. thats shaolin's selective emphasis. i still think its amazing that in the one hand you examine and highlight bush's uselessness, and on the other hand you'll accuse him of the greatest stunt in the history of the world.

btw, the document i posted is a whole lot more connected to 9/11 than some investigation where the viewer is meant to assume that prejudice, rather than incompetence, was to blame.

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN firstly, thats not an argument re anything related to 9/11.

Oh no, stopping the FBI from investigating Al-Qaeda before 9-11, signing and Executive Order (W199I-WF-213589) has absolutely nothing to do with it.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN thats shaolin's selective emphasis.

Selective emphasis is the photo "evidence" a 747 crashing into the pentagon that Popular Mechanics has exclusive access to, which came out muuuuch later.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i still think its amazing that in the one hand you examine and highlight bush's uselessness, and on the other hand you'll accuse him of the greatest stunt in the history of the world.

It's really not a great stunt when 84% of the American people don't buy their explanation:

quote:

Angus Reid Global Monitor : Polls & Research Americans Question Bush on 9/11 Intelligence October 14, 2006 - Many adults in the United States believe the current federal government has not been completely forthcoming on the issue of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, according to a poll by the New York Times and CBS News. 53 per cent of respondents think the Bush administration is hiding something, and 28 per cent believe it is lying. Only 16 per cent of respondents say the government headed by U.S. president George W. Bush is telling the truth on what it knew prior to the terrorist attacks, down five points since May 2002. Al-Qaeda operatives hijacked and crashed four airplanes in the U.S. on Sept. 11, 2001, killing nearly 3,000 people. In October, after Afghanistan’s Taliban regime refused to hand over al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, the U.S. launched the war on terrorism. On Aug. 6, 2001, a Presidential Daily Briefing titled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." mentioned "patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York." On May 17, 2002, Bush discussed the situation, saying, "The American people know this about me, and my national security team, and my administration: Had I known that the enemy was going to use airplanes to kill on that fateful morning, I would have done everything in my power to protect the American people." On Sept. 11, Bush referred to the attacks, saying, "Five years after 9/11, our enemies have not succeeded in launching another attack on our soil, but they’ve not been idle. Al-Qaeda and those inspired by its hateful ideology have carried out terrorist attacks in more than two dozen nations. And just last month, they were foiled in a plot to blow up passenger planes headed for the United States. They remain determined to attack America and kill our citizens—and we are determined to stop them." Polling Data When it comes to what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States, do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying? Oct. 2006, May 2002 Telling the truth 16%, 21% Hiding something 53%, 65% Mostly lying 28%, 8% Not sure 3%, 6% Source: The New York Times / CBS News Methodology: Telephone interviews with 983 American adults, conducted from Oct. 5 to Oct. 8, 2006. Margin of error is 4 per cent.

Source: AgnusReid Global Monitor

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN btw, the document i posted is a whole lot more connected to 9/11 than some investigation where the viewer is meant to assume that prejudice, rather than incompetence, was to blame.

Incompetence is a great cover for complicity.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

I think I posted it already, but can't be bothered to check the enitre thread:

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Oh no, stopping the FBI from investigating Al-Qaeda before 9-11, signing and Executive Order (W199I-WF-213589) has absolutely nothing to do with it.

its circumstantial. also, it could be evidence towards complicity, but not necessarily orchestration. 2 very different arguments. the only argument i really care about relate to orchestration. alone, i dont see this as evidence of anything apart from bush being inept.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Selective emphasis is the photo "evidence" a 747 crashing into the pentagon that Popular Mechanics has exclusive access to, which came out muuuuch later.

oh come on. youre not SERIOUSLY doubting that a flight flew into the pentagon are you? and no, selective emphasis is shaolin interpreting (W199I-WF-213589) as meaning the administration planned the attack. i can understand you being suspicious, but sometimes the leaps you make appear to have a whole lot of faith behind them.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z It's really not a great stunt when 84% of the American people don't buy their explanation:

so, we should consider the people's opinion when examining the evidence? come now these are the same people that elected bush twice. they dont have a whole lot of credibility for me!!

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Incompetence is a great cover for complicity.

possibly so, but i think we can see a pattern of incompetence from this administration, so its not that hard to believe.

please read that article i posted. its not that long. in point form. from a world expert on demolitions. id like to concentrate on that for just a moment! we know the towers fell down, and here is an expert telling us why it couldn't have been explosives. surely thats gotta count for something?

too often i feel the evidence you raise requires an inference by the reader, rather than it being cut and dried & laid bare.

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ahhhhh yes steven jones. but your 9/11 article still hasnt been peer reviewed has it? haha

shaolin- who are you going to give more weight to? a physics professor not qualified to analyse the collapse of super-structure, or a bunch of experts in the demolitions field that have conducted demolitions all over the world and in all types of buildings? (like i posted.) go on. indulge me. give it a quick read!

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seriously, im sorry, but jones is an idiot. any layman can see the towers didnt fall anything like what a controlled demolition actually looks like.

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[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


this video explains the situation quite thoroughly. after watching it, i definetely feel it was a demolition.

yes you are quite right that laymen don't know the difference, the public are sheep, just like you.

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this is it.

jeee. when will you people finaly forget about that 9/11 thing. what is so special about it? there are plenty of terrorist acts up there, but everybody just keep talking about this one event.

get a grip on yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im sorry. but youre really just sounding like a fucking crazy lunatic now. if this is the best the 9/11 nutcases have then im not surprised you're being ignored. hint hint: mcveigh planted those bombs in the building champ!

Here. Learn and watch. On 7/7 attacks, government agencies were doing terrorist simulation attacks on the subway while the events then unfolded, all happening in ONE day!!! What are the odds of that happening at the SAME TIME at the SAME PLACE. The odds of that happening are one in a tretigillion. And guess what - on 9/11 NORAD, which is supposed to protect American skies instead was doing terrorist drills, for the first time that year, and EXACTLY AT THE SAME TIME and SAME PLACE terrorists attacked. Whoa, eh? Those terrorists hit the jackpot! For one and a half hours in 3 years the terrorists were literally told when and where to attack. Haha.

7-7 attacks had drills going on at the same time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B5Jltzcimc

9/11 attacks had drills going on at the same time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNjLt3vVwg

Haha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ65NwtbQic

Full radio transcript for the same 7/7 attacks by a guy who clearly identifies himself as former British intelligence agent now working for some shady security company.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpPafvtJ9GU

You're the lunatic for being an idiot and ignorant ass. If you discount this, then you are rightfully a government agent. Haha. Here's MY smoking gun. Oh noooo we didnt know or ever imagined that terrorist could have hijacked the planes and crashed them into Pentagon and World Trade Center - which turned up to be a big fucking lie. Haha. It WAS and IS American government's fault, not the terrorists because the governnment knew about the attacks beforehand and lied to people by saying their never envisioned attacks coming! Haha. The guy in charge of that drill on 7/7 was a former MI6 agent!!! Haha ....

Good food-for-thought: Mi6 hiding terrorists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flypeg17ZsM

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Last edited by Magnetonium on Jan-20-2007 at 23:15

quote:

Originally posted by star-traveller jeee. when will you people finaly forget about that 9/11 thing. what is so special about it? there are plenty of terrorist acts up there, but everybody just keep talking about this one event. get a grip on yourself.

Tell that to the media. All I keep seeing/hearing on the news is nine-eleven this nine-eleven that, terrorists here and terrorists there, saddam has nukes and he financed bin laden, blah blah blah.

It's the media that keeps pushing the recycled garbage.

A manufactured utopia needs a manufactured synthesis.

Or would this please you some:

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