You can change the key in Ableton and keep the pitch (Time Stretch type thingy).
However you need to be careful as to how much you do this as it can have a very strange effect on percussive sounds and the kick. Can make things sound like a bad mix even if it's one track playing.

This is also true for a lot of pitch correction software including CDJs1000 master pitch.

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Hey STARBOY Not strictly true. The statement should read that if there is a 3% difference between two tracks, then it wont sound that good. You will find exceptions though as with anything else. If however you have two tracks that are playing a +3% then all should be fine and dandy. If you do a quick bass change in a mix you will get a slight lift but in general a blend can sound a bit clangourous. Cheers Nem

Ok i understand this, but lets say i have two tracks im trying to blend together harmonicly and the tempo i want to play at is around 136 bpm.

Track one is 12A and 136bpm original speed (this one stays zero pitch)

Track two is 6A and 130bpm original speed and needs to be piched up 4.65% to beatmatch with track one.

By increasing the pitch on track two that much it increases the its key enough to blend well with track one right? given that it makes it compatable +1 or -1

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Anyone in here use the key lock feature on the cdj1000? how usefull is it, do you keep it on at all times? i spin vinyl and its becoming kind of frustrating figuring out what key my tunes are when they're pitched up or down. If anyone uses this feature maybe you can shed some light on the advantages and disadvantages etc, thanks.

I have a CDJ-200 and I always use the Master Tempo (Key Lock).
When I play at clubs with the CDJ-1000 I always use it also.

but I tend not to go over 2.50 %, beacuse in most songs it will start to sound weird.

This means in the range of BPM that I mix 125 Bpm-145 Bpm, that I can only increase BPM or decrease bpm by 3 numbers.

for example
Song A: 130 BPM, I won't go below 127 BPM and won't go over 133 BPM.
Song B (Mixing track): This in general have to be 6 numbers from the playing song. in this case the lowest original bpm track I owuld play with song A, would be 124, and the higher would be 136 original Bpm.

___________________
Here are my latest mixes:
Pepa - Pure Bliss (June 2007 Promo)
Pepa - Visual Thoughts (March 2007 Promo)
Pepa - Trippin' Again

Mash-ups:
Perasma Vs BT - Swing 2 Gravity (Pepa Live Mash-up)
I Trance You!

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Ok i understand this, but lets say i have two tracks im trying to blend together harmonicly and the tempo i want to play at is around 136 bpm. Track one is 12A and 136bpm original speed (this one stays zero pitch) Track two is 6A and 130bpm original speed and needs to be piched up 4.65% to beatmatch with track one. By increasing the pitch on track two that much it increases the its key enough to blend well with track one right? given that it makes it compatable +1 or -1

Yes, exactly! This is Advanced Technique #1: Region Shifting, as explained in our harmonic mixing website.

quote:

Originally posted by starboy Ok i understand this, but lets say i have two tracks im trying to blend together harmonicly and the tempo i want to play at is around 136 bpm. Track one is 12A and 136bpm original speed (this one stays zero pitch) Track two is 6A and 130bpm original speed and needs to be piched up 4.65% to beatmatch with track one. By increasing the pitch on track two that much it increases the its key enough to blend well with track one right? given that it makes it compatable +1 or -1

Yup, if you pitch the slower track up by that much it should in theory make it a 1A.

A rule of thumb you can remember is that if you pitch something up by that much you can always add 7 and you will get the new key.

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

hey nem, whats wrong with -4 & +3 mixes?

___________________

Same reason you don't do a -7. You are going backwards on the chromatic scale and you will create a drop in energy because the notes you are changing to are too close to the root note.

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

For those of you interested in more comparisons of key detection software, here is our most recent subscriber update. Note that it compares Mixmeister results with keys reported by our musician:

UPDATE 2006.13 ARTIST|TITLE|SPEED|KEYCODE(Research*MM5)|B|C|W|NOTE

AGUILARA, CHRISTINA|HURT|75|9A*10A |0|1|0|P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
AKON F/EMINEM|SMACK THAT (CLEAN EDIT)|119|4A*4A |1|1|0|P/O URBAN OCT 06
ALL-AMERICAN REJECTS|IT ENDS TONIGHT|88|8A*7A |0||1|P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
ASHLEY PARKER ANGEL|WHERE DID YOU GO|64|9A*9A |0||1|63.9; P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
ATOMIC SWINDLERS|FLOAT (POWER DRIVE MIX)|126|12A*12A |0||1|P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
AUDE, DAVE & TALL PAUL F/SISEL|COMMON GROUND (ORIGINAL CLUB V|128|5A*5A |0||1|P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
BABY RANKS, DADDY YANKEE, TONN|MAJOR QUE YO (EXCLUSIVE MAS FL|90|8A*8A |0|1|0|(RT) P/O T/L MAY 05
BECK|NAUSEA (ALBUM VERSION)|116|2A*2A |0||1|115.3; P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
BEYONCE|DEJA VU (FREEMASONS CLUB MIX)|126|6A*6A |0|1|0|P/O CLUB OCT 06
BEYONCE|RING THE ALARM|86|8A*11A |1|1|0|85.4; P/O R/RADIO OCT 06



BIG BROOKLYN RED|HE MOVES (DEEP HAVEN MIX)|125|12A*2A |0|1|0|(INSPIR.) P/O U/CLUB OCT 06
BIRD & THE BEES|F*CKING BOYFRIEND (ROSARIO)|129|1A*1A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
BLIGE, MARY J|TAKE ME AS I AM|83|11A*11A |1|1|0|P/O URBAN OCT 06
BOWLING FOR SOUP|HIGH SCHOOL NEVER ENDS|160|11B*10A |0||1|P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
BROWN, KATHY|GET ANOTHER LOVE (WARREN CLARK|125|7A*8A |0|1|0|P/O U/CLUB OCT 06
CARAMEL CLUB, THE|MAMA SAY MAMA SA (HI_TACK RMX)|128|7A*7A |0|1|0|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
CARTEL|HONESTLY|143|3B*1A |0||1|P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
CASSIE|LONG WAY 2 GO|106|5A*5A |1|1|0|105.7; P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
CAZWELL|ALL OVER YOUR FACE (GOMI'S WES|128|10A*8A |0|1|0|P/O CLUB OCT 06
CHINGY F/JERMAINE DUPRI|DEM JEANS|85|11A*11A |1||0|P/O URBAN OCT 06



CHRISTOPHER, D|A MOMENT OF YOUR TIME|72|1A*12A |1|1|0|P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
CORSTEN, FERRY|WATCH OUT (EXTENDED)|135|8A*8A |0||1|CONFIRMED; P/O R/CLUB OCT 06
COSMIC BELT|TIME FLIES (CLUB)|127|8A*8A |0|1|0|P/O U/CLUB OCT 06
CREAMER & K F/NADIA ALI & ROSK|SOMETHING TO LOSE (GERVAIS RMX|128|4A*4A |0||1|P/O R/CLUB OCT 06
DANIELS, MISCHA|TAKE ME HIGHER (CLUB MIX)|130|9A*9A |0|1|0|P/O R/CLUB OCT 06
DANITY KANE|SHOW STOPPER (YUNG JOC REMIX)|76|4A*4A |0|1|0|P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
DEANE, SHERYL|MAKING LOVE (JNP DIRTY VOX MIX|130|4A*4A |0||1|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
DEANE, SHERYL|MAKING LOVE (SOLO'S ORIGINAL V|127|5A*5A |0||1|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
DEZROK|THE LOVE YOU FEEL (EXT. MIX)|126|5A*6A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
DJ TECHNICS|CHANT OF THE KARIBOO (MF MAIN|125|4A*4A |0|1|0|P/O U/CLUB OCT 06



DON OMAR "LOS BANDOLEROS)|DONKEO|93|12B*5A |0|1|0|(RT) P/O T/L MAY 05
DUKE, GEORGE|BRAZILIAN LOVE AFFAIR (MAT BRA|128|6A*7A |0|1|0|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
FAT JOE F/LIL WAYNE|MAKE IT RAIN ON 'EM|75|9A*2A |1||0|74.7; P/O URBAN OCT 06
FIORUCCI, NICK|NEED YOUR LOVE (DEKO-ZE REMIX)|128|5B*12A |0|1|0|P/O CLUB OCT 06
FLANDERS|BY MY SIDE (7TH HEAVEN MIX)|128|12B*9A |0||1|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
FLEMING, ROCHELLE|ARE YOU READY FOR ME (WB CLASS|127|7A*6A |0|1|0|P/O U/CLUB OCT 06
FORD, FREDRICK|TURN MY WORLD AROUND (GEORGIE'|129|3A*3A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
FOXX, JAMIE|CAN I TAKE U HOME|61|12A*11A |1||0|P/O URBAN OCT 06
FREEMAN, ADAM|DARK STORM RISING (ORIGINAL MI|126|7A*4A |0||1|P/O U/CLUB OCT 06
GERVAIS, CEDRIC F/CAROLINE|SPIRIT IN MY LIFE (CLUB MIX)|127|2A*2A |0||1|P/O R/CLUB OCT 06



GEYSTER|UNDER THE FUSE OF LOVE (ARNO C|128|3A*2A |0||1|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
GROOVELAND|TELL ME (ANDREA T MENDOZA RMX)|130|11B*8A |0||1|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
GROOVEWATCHERS|BUGBEAR (ORIGINAL MIX)|130|10B*7A |0||1|P/O R/CLUB OCT 06
HILDENBRANDT, LAUREN|DANCE WITH YOU (ESCAPE & DOM C|128|12A*1A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
HILTON, PARIS|NOTHING IN THIS WORLD|130|9B*8A |0||1|P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
HILTON, PARIS|TURN IT UP (DJ DAN'S HOT TO TR|127|10A*10A |0||1|P/O R/CLUB OCT 06
HOGAN, BROOKE|ABOUT US (UP IN MY BIZNESS CLU|129|11A*11A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
ILLUMINATI F/LOVELY LAURA & PA|IT'S A SAXXY THING (FRANZ DA S|128|3A*12A |0|1|0|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
IVY QUEEN|DALE PAI|95|4A*4A |0|1|0|(RT) P/O T/L MAY 05
JANET F/KHIA|SO EXCITED|107|10A*1A |1||0|P/O URBAN OCT 06



JAUNT|TRAVELLING|129|4A*2A |0||1|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
JHOSY & BABY Q|PRENDE LOS CENSORES|95|5A*5A |0|1|0|(RT) P/O T/L MAY 05
JOAN & O'NEAIL "DA MUSIC"|EL CONEJITO|94|12A*1A |0|1|0|(RT) P/O T/L MAY 05
JONES, DEENA & THE DREAMS|ONE NIGHT ONLY (CLUB MIX)|132|3A*3A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
JONES, DONELL|OOH NA NA|71|12A*11A |1||0|P/O URBAN OCT 06
KASKADE|BE STILL (ROBBIE RIVERA JUICY)|127|8A*8A |0||1|P/O R/CLUB OCT 06
KAYOT|CLEAR SKY (MANOO & FRANCOIS A|126|9A*11A |0|1|0|115.3; P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
KEANE|IS IT ANY WONDER (TALL PAUL CL|130|11A*8A |0||1|129.3; P/O CLUB OCT 06
KEANE|IS IT ANY WONDER (TP REMIX)|130|10B*8A |0||1|129.3; P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
KELIS F/NAS|BLINDFOLD ME|99|11B*8A |1||0|P/O URBAN OCT 06



KENNEDY, JAMIE & STU STONE|CIRCLE CIRCLE DOT DOT (DJ DAN|132|8A*7A |0||1|P/O R/CLUB OCT 06
KNIFE, THE|SILENT SHOUT (WILLIAMS ACIDIC|129|9A*9A |0||1|128.4; P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
KRAAK & SMAAK|KEEP ME HOME (SOUL OF MAN RMX)|130|8A*6A |0||1|P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
KT TUNSTALL|SUDDENLY I SEE|101|7A*7A |0||1|100.4; P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
LEAMA|FAITH (LENNY B'S FAITHFUL CLUB|126|9A*9A |0||1|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
LIL DEVIOUS|TONIGHT (PLAYMAKER SWEDEN RMX)|130|7A*7A |0||1|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
LIL' WAYNE F/ROBIN THICKE|SHOOTER|81|11B*8A |1|1|0|P/O R/RADIO OCT 06
M-FACTOR|OPEN YOUR EYES (ERIC SMAX & TH|130|6A*6A |0||1|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
MIC LITTLE F/NE-YO|PUT IT IN A LETTER|90|12B*9A |1||0|89.9; P/O URBAN OCT 06
MIMS|THIS IS WHY I'M HOT (CLEAN EDI|80|5A*10A |1|1|0|P/O R/RADIO OCT 06



MOMENT OF TRUTH|LOVIN' YOU IS KILLIN' ME (HHDM|130|3A*3A |0|1|0|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
MON A Q|IT'S MY TURN (MIDNITE BREAKS C|134|6A*6A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
MONSTER TAXI|MEMORY WACK (GD BEAT THE LOVE|130|9A*9A |0|1|0|P/O R/CLUB OCT 06
MYA F/DJ KOOL|AYO!|85|4A*4A |1||0|P/O URBAN OCT 06
NOIR, JIM|EANIE MEANY (FATBOY SLIM FULL|133|5B*2A |0||1|P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
NOTUS F/SHENA|STILL IN LOVE (BIG WORLD REMIX|126|9A*9A |0||1|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
OK GO|HERE IT GOES AGAIN|146|8B*6A |0||1|P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
ONE CHANCE F/FABO|LOOK AT HER|70|3A*10A |1||0|P/O URBAN OCT 06
P.K.|STAND BY ME (CLUB EXTENDED)|130|11A*11A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
PANAGHI, CHRIS "THE GREEK"|THE TIME (DJ EXTREME BREAKBEAT|128|5A*5A |0|1|0|P/O R/CLUB SEP 06



PANIC! AT THE DISCO|THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MA|130|11A*11A |0||1|P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
PAPRIZOU, HELENA|MY NUMBER ONE (NORTY COTTO'S)|130|12A*12A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
RICHIE, LIONEL|I CALL IT LOVE (TRACY YOUNG)|130|4A*4A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
ROCKEFELLER|DO IT 2NITE (BEATFREAKZ CLUB M|127|9A*9A |0|1|0|("TAKE YOUR TIME") UKCB1006
ROSS, RICK|PUSH IT|76|5A*9A |1||0|75.5; P/O URBAN OCT 06
SHAPE:UK|SENSITIVITY (MTV REMIX)|125|7A*7A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
SHOUT OUT LOUDS|THE COMEBACK (BIG SLIPPA REMIX|129|8A*8A |0||1|128.8; P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
SILOSONIC|SOMETHING (SOUL CORPORATION VO|126|1A*1A |0|1|0|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
SIMPSON, JESSICA|I BELONG TO ME|63|5B*4A |0||1|P/O M/RADIO OCT 06
SNOOP DOGG F/B-REAL|VATO (CLEAN EDIT)|91|10A*10A |1||0|P/O URBAN OCT 06



SPACE COWBOY|MY EGYPTIAN LOVER (EXT CLUB RM|125|4A*4A |0|1|0|124.8; UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
STROBE F/BERKHOUSE SNYDER|WHERE DO WE GO (EXT. MIX)|132|10A*8A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
STROUD F/CHO & ROWLAND|EBONY SEXTURE (ORIGINAL MIX)|128|5A*5A |0||1|P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
SUN|GONE (RALPHI ROSARIO CLUB MIX)|130|7A*5A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
TIMBERLAKE, JUSTIN|MY LOVE|60|9A*8A |0|1|0|P/O URBAN OCT 06
TIMBERLAKE, JUSTIN|SEXYBACK (SILENT SOUND BEAT DO|126|8A*8A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06
TRICK DADDY|BET THAT (CLEAN EDIT)|92|1A*2A |1||0|P/O URBAN OCT 06
TYLER, NICOLE|STOP YER BITCHIN' (BIG JAYE MI|130|4A*3A |0|1|0|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
VALENTINO, BOBBY|TURN THE PAGE|65|3B*1A |1||0|64.8; P/O URBAN OCT 06
VEDA, JAIDENE (VINNY TROIA PRE|FLOW (GARETH EMERY REMIX)|135|1A*1A |0||1|P/O CLUB OCT 06



WEBSTER & YOUNG B F/AG AKA THE|CHICKEN NOODLE SOUP (RADIO EDI|95|6A*6A |1|1|0|ATONAL; 95.1; P/O URBAN OCT 06
WEST INDIAN GIRL|WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF (SCUBA|130|12A*1A |0||1|P/O A/CLUB OCT 06
WISTERNOFF, JUDY|NOSTALGIA (REMIX)|126|8A*8A |0|1|0|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06
YOUNG BUCK F/JAZZE PHA|I KNOW YOU WANT ME (CLEAN EDIT|72|9A*9A |1||0|P/O URBAN OCT 06
YOUNG PUNX|ROCKALL (BEN BRAUND REMIX)|126|10A*10A |0||1|UK CLUB BEATS OCT 06


As before, this update compares the key reporting from Mixmeister Pro 5 (MMP5) to the results from keying by our musician. As before, the field with an asterisk reflects our research, followed by MMP5 results. MMP5 continues to provide approximately 60% accurate results. Results are more accurate with melodic tracks, and less accurate with tribal tracks. This is very useful as a rough estimate until we can confirm or update those results for you.

This updates the key detection software comparison we conducted six months ago in a MixingOnBeat forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Same reason you don't do a -7. You are going backwards on the chromatic scale and you will create a drop in energy because the notes you are changing to are too close to the root note. Cheers Nem

so

-7,-2,-4,+3 are a drop in energy?

+7,+2,+4,-3 will rise the energy?


I know this mixes are not supossed to be harmonic, I'm concerned about the energy.


Thanks.

___________________
Here are my latest mixes:
Pepa - Pure Bliss (June 2007 Promo)
Pepa - Visual Thoughts (March 2007 Promo)
Pepa - Trippin' Again

Mash-ups:
Perasma Vs BT - Swing 2 Gravity (Pepa Live Mash-up)
I Trance You!

That is the theory yes...

Keep in mind that a +7 is the same thing as a -5

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 That is the theory yes... Keep in mind that a +7 is the same thing as a -5 Cheers Nem

Thanks I'll practice the Theory =)

About the harmonics in Theory

-1,+1, will both rise the Energy?

going from Minor to Major (eg. 1A to 1B) and Major to minor (eg. 1B to 1A will also rise the Energy?

Thanks for your help.

___________________
Here are my latest mixes:
Pepa - Pure Bliss (June 2007 Promo)
Pepa - Visual Thoughts (March 2007 Promo)
Pepa - Trippin' Again

Mash-ups:
Perasma Vs BT - Swing 2 Gravity (Pepa Live Mash-up)
I Trance You!