quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Well, why pay higher taxes when you don't have to? Right now, the middle classes pay a higher percentage of their taxes than do the wealthy. Think about it. Most of the money people like Warren Buffet and Bill Gates make are from their stock holdings, which they hold for years, and thus, don't pay any taxes on the capital gains. Higher taxes also serve to help lower our staggering government deficits, and curtail inflation. Obama would be raising taxes for the wealthiest individuals, which needs to happen, because the majority of the current tax burden is on the middle class.

The best way to lower staggering government deficits is to make sure that they don't waste money in the first place. But they do and if you don't change their spending habits than nothing will change.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt Yes, lower rates help rich people but that is NOT THE REASON people advocate them! The economic reasons for lowering the penalty on investment are clear...and it is NOT because we love the rich and want kiss their ass and shower them with gifts. It has nothing to do with trying to reward one group of people over another. It has everything to do with rewarding certain BEHAVIOR and encouraging economic activity that benefits everyone.

get serious for a minute. of course no one is going to say lower capital gains rates are meant to lower the ETR for rich people. However, who do you think has the power to influence government policy? it's certainly not the poor. Since the wealth of most wealthy people is locked up in capital assets that is the type of tax wealthy people seek to lower.

why is investing capital something we want to reward more than services? providing services is actually more important than providing capital. Without people's services there is no economy. While capital is vitally important, it is not more important than services.

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt Do you have a source for that? Last I heard, the USA had one of the highest cap gains rates among developed countries...and as I was watching CNBC on Friday, someone mentioned that Mexico and Russia were going down to 0% rates. I'd be interested to be proven wrong on this. I can't find much hard data about current rates through google.

of course i do, i'm a tax lawyer. since it's the weekend i don't have access to my research tools, but these links will give you what you need:


Russia is at 13%
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/cda/doc...ight_russia.pdf

China: 20%
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/cda/doc...ht_china(2).pdf

Mexico: 28% except sales of publicly traded securities and transfers of certain personal property
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/cda/doc...xico_010808.pdf

Sweden: 30%
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/cda/doc...eden_011608.pdf

Spain: 18%
http://www.deloitte.com/dtt/cda/doc...light_spain.pdf

Last edited by jerZ07002 on Jul-05-2008 at 20:22

ah thanks for the numbers jerz.. It looks like once Obama gets his way we will have the second highest tax on capital in the world among developed countries. That's what I thought. Not something to be proud of though

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt ah thanks for the numbers jerz.. It looks like once Obama gets his way we will have the second highest tax on capital in the world among developed countries. That's what I thought. Not something to be proud of though

well, i'm certainly not in favor of a blanket increase in taxes, i'd rather have lower spending in order to balance the budget. however, since the calculus requires either an increase in income or a reduction in spending, and no one seems to want to reduce spending, the government needs to raise more money.

more important than keeping a low capital gains rate, we need to lower our corporation income tax rate. the US actually has the second highest corporate income tax rate after japan. I would like to see a 25% corporate tax rate (down from 35%). That would be far more important to spur growth than lower capital gains taxes since someone can avoid paying capital gains tax by simply not selling the capital assets. And with the incentive to hold the asset to avoid paying the tax, your justification for spurring economic growth by providing capital is less important than you think because most people don't cash out of the position because of the tax they would incur - most people let the gain sit untaxed until they either have a really good alternative investment option, or they really need the money. On the other hand, if a corporation has income it must pay corporate income taxes.

Additionally, corporate tax rates are actually a significant variable when corporations decide where to operate. Capital gains rates mean nothing for those decisions because people can't easily change the fact that a country taxes their individual income.

To add to that, all those countries you cite impose a VAT (which i said before). The VAT increases the cost of goods by as much as 25%. The highest sales tax in the US is probably around 8%. So before you say that the US is somehow behind of other developed countries in promoting growth perhaps you should evaluate the effect of VAT.

lower corporate income tax >>>>>> low capital gain rate (by a long shot)

Last edited by jerZ07002 on Jul-05-2008 at 20:49

quote:

Originally posted by guerra-monstru The best way to lower staggering government deficits is to make sure that they don't waste money in the first place. But they do and if you don't change their spending habits than nothing will change.

It does not matter how the government spends the money. A deficit is a deficit.

___________________

My funds have been taking a massive beating. I have been liquidating my positions little by little. At this point, I am minimally invested. Since I've been moving this entire week, I have no time to do my usual stock analysis, so I won't be adding anything new anytime soon.

___________________

Look at the destruction of my Steel & Iron Fund.
http://marketocracy.com/cgi-bin/Web...iAfHhFeMaKiAbDf

Destruction of my Agriculture Sector Fund.
http://marketocracy.com/cgi-bin/Web...d/maxDays=10000

Volatility of my Dry-Bulk Shipping Fund.
http://marketocracy.com/cgi-bin/Web...f/maxDays=10000

My Energy Fund seems to be holding up, albeit flatly.
http://marketocracy.com/cgi-bin/Web...c/maxDays=10000

My "Beat the Dow with the Dow" Fund seems to be doing what it's supposed to...Beating the Dow Jones.
http://marketocracy.com/cgi-bin/Web...f/maxDays=10000

___________________

i like drys right now july 08

___________________

soulful/latin/deep house + jazz

i posted above july 07 and it shot up 4%

___________________

soulful/latin/deep house + jazz

DRYS and POT moving away from me while my funds go through ACH

WHY?????????????????

___________________

soulful/latin/deep house + jazz

Stocks officially in bear market territory today...Oh noes!

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...E413F1006A8B%7D

Last edited by Capitalizt on Jul-10-2008 at 00:39

This market is nutzors. It has a way of forcing your hand to cover and then making you wish you had doubled down. I've never seen a bear market quite as vicious as this one.