quote:

Originally posted by nic01445 what about those who have earnestly looked for some sort of sign of gods existance? i have read most of the bible, but not its entirety, and i must say, have found no answers to my questions. I also have prayed, and prayed, and prayed; i've prayed my heart out. i have not found any answers to my prayers, no matter how hard i look.

Well, one must be spiritually bonded.. I mean.. if you try the following, like follow the commandments, lets say, and do good actions.. and pray along with it daily, you will feel different. Also, the Bible is something to really look and study, not just read through it, but study it. Thats why people go to church, to understand it better, although I have to admit that some churches you go and come out without understanding it still. But anyways, like I said, the Bible is something one must study deeply in order to understand it, and with it pray.. if you apply what the bibles teaches to your daily life, then you should be closer to get an answer... but if you are like one of those that prays, and at the second later your out doing drugs, cursing, and doing all this bad sided things, then I guess you will always be trying, if you know what I mean. This is just my belief.

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Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

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Originally posted by tiesto14 Not like anyone cares...but i personally beleive there IS a God and he DID create the universe, but he did not create human beings...i beleive we, as a species, evolved through millions of years...maybe God saw humans as future step in his creation but started us out as micro-organisms to see if we "would" evolve, like some twisted game of his.....how else can we explain tracing plant life back way before man - when God, according to the Bible, created man on the 5th or 6th day after he created the universe? or how we can trace dinosaurs before man? and what about neanderthals (sp?) and cromagnons which some say are man in stages of evolution?....until that can be explained to be then i take zero validity in the Adam & Eve story....but my thoughts are not on your guys levels so next...lol...

I like the conception of a God who merely sets the universe in motion, unsure of what will actually happen as a result myself.

It's one of the few conceptions that actually appeals to a logic minded person, and it doesn't conflict with the paradigm that science has been laying out for us, one that I tend to agree with.

I can't reconcile any vague God inclinations I have with the old testament for a number of reasons beyond the creation story, but it's not as though that's the only religion/conception of God making the rounds.

This is off topic quite a bit, but just to share my own conception, I have a willingness to entertain the notion of God, but in a more abstract way than religious people.

Basically, everything in the known universe at the start was one, what ancient philosophers would call the first principal, from that starting point everything emerged. Basically a philosophical rendering of what science would call the big bang.

Everything still has a 'memory' for lack of a better word of this initial togetherness, and all things are subtly interconnected as a result, sometimes we can feel this connectedness given the right conditions.

I could expound more, but suffice to say from a beginning like that it's not an overly large reach to say that something could have put it all into motion, indeed, something *had* to put it into motion, it's just a question of what that something was, a natural force or a sentient agent.

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Einen Moment von Freundlichkeit wie daß in einem Traum

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Originally posted by LiquidX More like.. do what you please, but on Judgement day, your screwed if you are a person like Hitler or Bin Ladin.. or as bad as a raper.. know what I mean?

Well, protestants are taught that their salvation all comes down to their belief in Jesus,and that he died on the cross for mankind's sin to be removed. As long as you hold this to be your key belief, you will go to heaven when you die/on judgement day,and the things you did in your past life do not matter regarding this issue. That doesn't mean that you can walk around killing ppl since as long as you believe everything is OK,mind.

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"Wenn du dich zum Untergrund zählst, reicht es nicht, es nur zu sagen. Du musst auch viel graben, um es zu werden."

all i've noticed is that the starter of this thread mysteriously disappeared when the evidence against creationism slowly mounted up...

and for all those who argue FOR a god, i suggest you stop reading pointless propaganda and start getting yourself educated in terms of science and the universe becuase as soon as you do you realise how much BS that whole first post acctaully was

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quote:

Originally posted by nic01445 what about those who have earnestly looked for some sort of sign of gods existance? i have read most of the bible, but not its entirety, and i must say, have found no answers to my questions. I also have prayed, and prayed, and prayed; i've prayed my heart out. i have not found any answers to my prayers, no matter how hard i look.

at least god gave u a hot girlfriend
i didnt even get that much
ROFL

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Originally posted by Renegade Well, exactly. Regardless of what you want to call yourself, if you don't believe in a God you're an atheist. When many people use the term "agnostic", though, what they're really talking about is a "suspension" of belief rather than a "lack" of belief (there's a slight albeit questionable difference). They don't have a specific belief in a God (which would technically make them an atheist) but they're still "suspending" their belief or lack of belief on the basis that more information may become available - that is, they don't think that, for whatever reason, the God question is answerable at this time. Use a poll for an example: Do you believe a historical Jesus ever existed? a) Yes b) No c) Maybe/Don't Know On the HJ question I'd consider myself an agnostic. I see that there is evidence supporting both perspectives (belief that he did/didn't exist) but the evidence supporting either perspective balances out to the extent that it is difficult for me to hold firm to the belief that Jesus did or did not exist. I don't feel that there is enough evidence to say that he did exist, but too much to say that he didn't - and I suppose that this is what the agnostics feel when it comes to the question of God. Personally I don't see enough evidence to suspend my belief concerning the existence of a God..... ..... which is why I'm happy to call myself an atheist. I, like everyone else on this forum, was born an atheist, and - in the absense of any real evidence - have remained one to this day.

I don't think the Jesus question you posted is very good at deciding whether a person is an atheist or not. The only possibility you can be certain of is that a person is not a christian if it says Jesus didn't exist. I for one think Jesus really did exist at that time in history. Christianity didn't appear from nothing. On the other hand, I just consider him a schizophrenic lunatic with a great charisma who happened to appear at the right place and at the right time.

And also, I must correct myself on the sand grain formula. It should have been n!/(k!(n-k)!). So substract a few hundred zeros from the first result.

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1+1=10

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I don't think the Jesus question you posted is very good at deciding whether a person is an atheist or not. The only possibility you can be certain of is that a person is not a christian if it says Jesus didn't exist.

Yeah, I didn't intend for it to be a question upon which people could decide whether they were an atheist or not, I merely used it to differetiate between "lack of belief" (as per my position to God) and "suspension of belief" (as per my position to the historical Jesus).

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I for one think Jesus really did exist at that time in history. Christianity didn't appear from nothing. On the other hand, I just consider him a schizophrenic lunatic with a great charisma who happened to appear at the right place and at the right time.

I never used to have a problem with Jesus existing, but there's a lot of problems that I'd never even considered that do need addressing. For a run down of some of the problems, visit:

http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/home.htm

( www.jesuspuzzle.com )

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

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Originally posted by Photo_bot_2k1 all i've noticed is that the starter of this thread mysteriously disappeared when the evidence against creationism slowly mounted up... and for all those who argue FOR a god, i suggest you stop reading pointless propaganda and start getting yourself educated in terms of science and the universe becuase as soon as you do you realise how much BS that whole first post acctaully was

im here and well!

i am just reading the posts here, and since the answers need to be all over the place, i am researching them well so you guys dont try to discredit me and win because i am not 100% on what I said.

the issue about learning more science = proof religion is bullshit

only if the definition of religion means what the power hungry hierarchy of the church and islamic leaders are saying.

they are saying whatever the want for power.

now if you look to the true beginning of the bible, the people of the bible, or as the muslims call them "the people of the book"

the jewish approach to religion, and science are going hand in hand perfectly.

this is for all those that are into that 'science vs religion' debate...

that debate is based on christian / islamic ideas of religion and science.

take a look at any jewish vs science, and you'll find it more like

judaism = science

check out www.aish.com it has tons of sources, i pull it up cause i know its very good and made for everyone.

i will answer with details soon hopefully most of the questions here.

like about G-d being created, its stupid assumption because G-d is at the TOP, G-d is PERFECTION, not having BEEN CREATED is a necessary attribute to there being a G-d because if something was created that you guys are defining as G-d, surely what CREATED that, is G-d and not the creation.


and just a side note, notice how the dumbshits that are against israel and so passionate about the israeli aggression cannot even fathom a response to this post, because they are uneducated halfwits. No insult here, i'm speaking genuinely. These idiots that talk smack now in a real intellectual conversation say what??

NOTHING BENEFICIAL!!!

i say we need to get people that contribute nothing intellectually BANNED from JUST this forum... that way we leave it good.

and create a new forum called jibberish for fools

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TORAHTRANCE CREW!

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Originally posted by DJBARON and just a side note, notice how the dumbshits that are against israel and so passionate about the israeli aggression cannot even fathom a response to this post, because they are uneducated halfwits. No insult here, i'm speaking genuinely. These idiots that talk smack now in a real intellectual conversation say what?? NOTHING BENEFICIAL!!! i say we need to get people that contribute nothing intellectually BANNED from JUST this forum... that way we leave it good. and create a new forum called jibberish for fools

Quite honestly, I have no idea who or what you are referring to here. Sure there are idiotic comments and outlandish ideas on this forum, but one must take the goods with the bads. It's an opinion forum - people say what they wish, and hopefully it's on or close to the topic at hand (with the help of a good Mod. if needed). To categorize those who speak out against Israel as idiots is a pretty insulting sweeping generalization at best. There are a handful of pro-Israelis that have made their fair share of idiotic comments here as well, why have you not pointed them out? Perhaps you could be more specific when calling one or a group of folks idiotic, as opposed to making sweeping statements that tend to imply a sense of prejudice on your part.

That aside, I agree this is an interesting topic. I just hope we continue this discussion at hand and not deviate with further hasty generalizations.

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Quite honestly, I have no idea who or what you are referring to here. Sure there are idiotic comments and outlandish ideas on this forum, but one must take the goods with the bads. It's an opinion forum - people say what they wish, and hopefully it's on or close to the topic at hand (with the help of a good Mod. if needed). To categorize those who speak out against Israel as idiots is a pretty insulting sweeping generalization at best. There are a handful of pro-Israelis that have made their fair share of idiotic comments here as well, why have you not pointed them out? Perhaps you could be more specific when calling one or a group of folks idiotic, as opposed to making sweeping statements that tend to imply a sense of prejudice on your part. That aside, I agree this is an interesting topic. I just hope we continue this discussion at hand and not deviate with further hasty generalizations.

no way people can have their opinions, but share them only if they know they are right, or are trying to figure thigns out.

there are a few on this board that no matter what is said against their lies, they will continue, knowing full well they are wrong.

Just check all the israel posts, and soon you will see who I am referring to.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=128778

this is 1 post, it gets a bit flamey, but why does cyrus_king have to call THAT POST which has nothing to do with any opinion, its just a fact what he says, "ZIONIST SHIT"?

it is insulting and just creates hatred

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TORAHTRANCE CREW!

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 There is one key mistake in the article. While it estimates there are 10^390 protein combinations possible, and that life uses only 10^12, it automatically assumes the rest of the combinations are not functional. If that were the case, the evolution would be at its end, as all the protein combinations would be used up. But, the fact that life doesn't use the rest of the combinations doesn't mean they're impossible. It simply means there are many evolutionary paths probable that haven't yet been taken. It is true however, that most random combinations are ineffective. If you examine all lifeforms on earth, you will see that their protein structures are very similar. But every once in a while a functional change does happen. Humans and monkeys have more than 99% similar genes, and the only key difference is a minor variation in a way one single protein is synthesized. The time it took for such a little yet fundamental change to appear was several million years, when a defective monkey was born whose two cromosomes accidentally connected. Just think of how many defective monkeys were born during that time whose genes were flawed in a more serious way so that they couldn't have survived. But even such minor changes produce vastly different results. The most distant life form compared to our own is some sort of bacteria, and it still shares 60% of its DNA with us. Now, as far as the eye and limb development development goes, if the same proteins control the structure of the eye, the logical conclusion is that all the animals with eyes and limbs had a common ancestor with the necessary genes. That is not surprising since there are some very primitive branches of life with basic light recognition systems, branches that date back to time far before bugs and mammals existed. The fossile record that is mentioned does in some cases show abrupt changes. But that's because fossile record isn't complete. It's very difficult to find a skeleton of an animal that's been dead for 60 million years. So there are many holes only because very few of the corpses remain somewhat intact. Still, the way wing development is described in the article is flawed. There is a lot of evidence on dinosaurs having feathers, as well as there are several fossiles with primitive and clumsy clawed wings. And moving from a feathered claw to a wing is not that difficult. Just look at what humans have done with dogs in several thousand years. Changing feathered forearms into wings is not a major change in the gene structure, although from the outside it seems very different. And once when a new type of a successful creature appears, it spreads very quickly, as it yet has no natural enemies. That's why such abrupt changes happen.

i just copied this to an e-mail and im sending it to the publisher of that article, and going to get answer back from him soon and i'll post it here with his permission!

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TORAHTRANCE CREW!

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Originally posted by DJBARON no way people can have their opinions, but share them only if they know they are right, or are trying to figure thigns out. there are a few on this board that no matter what is said against their lies, they will continue, knowing full well they are wrong. Just check all the israel posts, and soon you will see who I am referring to. http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=128778 this is 1 post, it gets a bit flamey, but why does cyrus_king have to call THAT POST which has nothing to do with any opinion, its just a fact what he says, "ZIONIST SHIT"? it is insulting and just creates hatred

Yeah I thumbed through that, but unless you've been lurching on this particular forum for a year or longer, you're relatively new to some of the characters here. Cyrus King and Melech_Mike have been at it for a long time now, and both are pretty damn passionate about it. Others have joined in from time to time, but Melech Mike has done more than his fare share of damage here, which is obviously why he got suspended, AGAIN. Hence, my point about pro-Israelis being just as idiotic. As Occ mentioned in another thread, you kinda have to be a little more thicker skinned here, because we actually discuss some serious (and at times sensitive) issues here. Some personalities handle differing opinions better than others.

Believe me, I'm no saint in my own right. My opinions can sting others, as others have gotten me a little riled up as well. So it goes. But you take the goods with the bads, and if you work your way through the bads you'll see a lot of good info. being posted. Challenging others to support their assertions with info. is no doubt important, but understanding why someone feels the way they do should not be overlooked. Besides, tolerance towards others is vital toward understanding another's cultures, attitudes, feelings, etc.

***bows and falls off soapbox with bloody nose***

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...