Nellie: You claim not to be a kid yet you say very childish things like "I've talked to my parents". HAHAH man that cracked me up.

If you think that homosexuals are "people too", you're correct. Why deny a fellow man or woman the right to marry a member of the same sex if they're your equal? Don't give me this "marriage is sacred" crap either. Hell almost 50% of marriages end in divorce, so it's not like all these hetrosexual people are holding it sacred.

If I were to put an honest guess down, I'd say you were 14-15yrs old. You have a talk with your parents about my post, and you can respond with what they think.

Tell you mom I said "Hi" *wink*

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 I do have a clue, I've read my news. Have you read yours? You really have to do your research,I've done mine.

I'm not going to attack you like the others, but perhaps it would be best if you'd get your news from some place other than Pat Robertson and The 700 Club.

Just a thought.

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This thread sounds like its a whole bunch of people who all think homosexuality is wrong but want to be thought of (or at least think of themselves as) progressive and "new age" not stuck to the "old stereotypes and hypocrisies". Maybe there is a reason that for the last 3 thousand years its been looked down on by the majority of cultures. I would have to say that the 80s,90s, and the new millenium are definitely NOT the days to be proud of as for as social advancement. Once great nations fall to shit. Rotting from the inside, they will all fall do to new age pluralism which is basically a way of not confronting people, and trying to get rid of controversy by being a compromising pansy.

hmph.

Orbax for thousands of years some muslims have treated their women like second rate citizens. That must be okay because that's how it's been done before? Hell women were very recently allowed to vote if you're looking at a timeline like that. So perhaps it's that women have been allowed to vote that's causing all socities problems? Did you know that Hitler blamed the Jews for the economic problems Germany was having before WW2? I see no difference in you blaming homosexuals for "socities decay". And no I don't hate homosexuals and just act like I tolerate them because it's the "in thing to do". Have Nellies parents been having talks with you too?

quote:

Originally posted by failsafe Orbax for thousands of years some muslims have treated their women like second rate citizens. That must be okay because that's how it's been done before? Hell women were very recently allowed to vote if you're looking at a timeline like that. So perhaps it's that women have been allowed to vote that's causing all socities problems? Did you know that Hitler blamed the Jews for the economic problems Germany was having before WW2? I see no difference in you blaming homosexuals for "socities decay". And no I don't hate homosexuals and just act like I tolerate them because it's the "in thing to do".

im glad that you are here to argue instead of trying to see what im saying, and I guess thats what this forum is about? Anyways. Ill narrow my argument. European cultures. Im not a racist, im a culturalist, and I think places like Africa...who gives a shit what they do. They are fucked up. If you havent beaten your wife recently and she dies, at the open casket ceremony you are supposed to hit the shit out of the body to get rid of curses on the village. This is 2003 we are talking about.

There have been things that are good and bad. I think womens lib has really fucked some stuff up, but its done good things too. Men voting could be a head of the family elected to cast one vote for the whole, a womans voice could very well have been a part of that. Kind of like the democratic republic that we have now a days.

Im digressing. Homosexuals becoming integrated into society benefits no one. They shouldnt get special laws, special treatments. If I like fucking dogs, I shouldnt get a law passed to marry any dog I want. They get the same old treatment we all do. It was brought up earlier that there are tax breaks etc... associated with marriage. Get a civil union, youre fine. Marriage is a religious thing. 1 man, 1 woman. You can try to say how outdated religion is all you want, but it doesnt change what it is.

Anticipated responses to this: You hate people , youre mean, youre a cynic, dogs arent people but gays are, uhm blah blah blah.

My response. Dont be such a pussy. and dont take things to the worst possible level. You are reading this as I think they should be cast into the bowels of hell immediately. Nope, you read wrong, sorry. Marriage is a clearly defined thing. No changing that one. Should they be able to have all the rights that any other full citizen has, absolutely. But quit raising gays on this fucking pedastal like they are these VICTIMS of fate who just HAPPEN to be attracted to the same sex. That works a lot of other ways too you know.

John Wayne Gasey just HAPPENED to be attracted to the thought of murdering boys after sodomizing them and then burying them under his house. He only did it 40 times. It isnt HIS fault he was born like that.

Yeah yeah, its DIFFERENT. Im sure you can tell me how too. About how this isnt affecting anyone, its helping, bullshit bullshit. Being born a social misfit doesnt entitle you to act upon those feelings. Yes, SOCIAL MISFITS. They are the ones diverging from the whole, they are the minority, and they are deviant by any standard you wish to choose.

So dont tell me they are awesome, they need to be married, hey lets change GOD to fit the few who dont like it.

Civil Union: Yes, Marriage:no, same rights:yes.

end of story.

quote:

Have Nellies parents been having talks with you too?

you arent funny, dont try.



EDIT

also, im not a cultural relativist. I think some cultures are genuinely, 100% better than some other. BETTER. MORE RIGHT. Go read Ayne Rand if you disagree. She is really awesome, and people like her moral relativism from what Ive heard.

Last edited by Orbax on Jan-10-2004 at 05:32

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax This thread sounds like its a whole bunch of people who all think homosexuality is wrong but want to be thought of (or at least think of themselves as) progressive and "new age" not stuck to the "old stereotypes and hypocrisies". Maybe there is a reason that for the last 3 thousand years its been looked down on by the majority of cultures. I would have to say that the 80s,90s, and the new millenium are definitely NOT the days to be proud of as for as social advancement. Once great nations fall to shit. Rotting from the inside, they will all fall do to new age pluralism which is basically a way of not confronting people, and trying to get rid of controversy by being a compromising pansy. hmph.

To answer your accusation, yes I admit when I was younger I was more prejudiced and even probably used the name "fag" to insult others. But as I got older, I began to make friends with more gay people (including a very cool high school teacher). That's when I realized that they are people too who deserve respect and recognition as a part of humanity. Honestly, who would choose to be gay in a heterosexual society where you are scorned if you don't fit the mold? The Matthew Shepard killing aslo reinforced my feelings against anti-gay discrimination. I feel that if you're homosexual, then that's ok. I'm not against being homosexual. Orbax, I know you're a Christian, and I feel that Jesus taught us to be tolerant and accepting of others. He taught the world to reject hatred. As far as I know, he said nothing against homosexuals, but you can try and prove me wrong. But don't give me any quotes from the Old Testament, because I said Jesus! :P

I reject the conservative viewpoint on this issue because the same attitude can easily be adopted in opposition to Africn American and womens' suffrage, and how their voting leads to "degeneration" or "degredation" of our society.

dave

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quote:

Originally posted by DaveSaenz To answer your accusation, yes I admit when I was younger I was more prejudiced and even probably used the name "fag" to insult others. But as I got older, I began to make friends with more gay people (including a very cool high school teacher). That's when I realized that they are people too who deserve respect and recognition as a part of humanity. Honestly, who would choose to be gay in a heterosexual society where you are scorned if you don't fit the mold? The Matthew Shepard killing aslo reinforced my feelings against anti-gay discrimination. I feel that if you're homosexual, then that's ok. I'm not against being homosexual. Orbax, I know you're a Christian, and I feel that Jesus taught us to be tolerant and accepting of others. He taught the world to reject hatred. As far as I know, he said nothing against homosexuals, but you can try and prove me wrong. But don't give me any quotes from the Old Testament, because I said Jesus! :P I reject the conservative viewpoint on this issue because the same attitude can easily be adopted in opposition to Africn American and womens' suffrage, and how their voting leads to "degeneration" or "degredation" of our society. dave

Hehe, gays think im great. I have a friend who lives in Capitol Hill...Its where you go if you are Gay and live in Washington. Ive had gay co-workers, and been friends at school with them. I still think its wrong. I refuse to judge THEM i dont judge PEOPLE, but actions...free reign. Gays are highly motivated to do well, to be known. Great workers, hard workers, usually well-read.

Go to Ephesians if you want the definition of marriage . I can find the exact passage if you want.

and I dont like the slippery slope thing either hehe, oh when does the madness end if we start!? That isnt a reason to stay your hand. Its like not helping a woman who is getting raped because the guy might have a knife and someone might get hurt. Doin the right thing aint always easy.

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax im glad that you are here to argue instead of trying to see what im saying, and I guess thats what this forum is about? Anyways. Ill narrow my argument. European cultures. Im not a racist, im a culturalist, and I think places like Africa...who gives a shit what they do. They are fucked up. If you havent beaten your wife recently and she dies, at the open casket ceremony you are supposed to hit the shit out of the body to get rid of curses on the village. This is 2003 we are talking about. There have been things that are good and bad. I think womens lib has really fucked some stuff up, but its done good things too. Men voting could be a head of the family elected to cast one vote for the whole, a womans voice could very well have been a part of that. Kind of like the democratic republic that we have now a days. Im digressing. Homosexuals becoming integrated into society benefits no one. They shouldnt get special laws, special treatments. If I like fucking dogs, I shouldnt get a law passed to marry any dog I want. They get the same old treatment we all do. It was brought up earlier that there are tax breaks etc... associated with marriage. Get a civil union, youre fine. Marriage is a religious thing. 1 man, 1 woman. You can try to say how outdated religion is all you want, but it doesnt change what it is. Anticipated responses to this: You hate people , youre mean, youre a cynic, dogs arent people but gays are, uhm blah blah blah. My response. Dont be such a pussy. and dont take things to the worst possible level. You are reading this as I think they should be cast into the bowels of hell immediately. Nope, you read wrong, sorry. Marriage is a clearly defined thing. No changing that one. Should they be able to have all the rights that any other full citizen has, absolutely. But quit raising gays on this fucking pedastal like they are these VICTIMS of fate who just HAPPEN to be attracted to the same sex. That works a lot of other ways too you know. John Wayne Gasey just HAPPENED to be attracted to the thought of murdering boys after sodomizing them and then burying them under his house. He only did it 40 times. It isnt HIS fault he was born like that. Yeah yeah, its DIFFERENT. Im sure you can tell me how too. About how this isnt affecting anyone, its helping, bullshit bullshit. Being born a social misfit doesnt entitle you to act upon those feelings. Yes, SOCIAL MISFITS. They are the ones diverging from the whole, they are the minority, and they are deviant by any standard you wish to choose. So dont tell me they are awesome, they need to be married, hey lets change GOD to fit the few who dont like it. Civil Union: Yes, Marriage:no, same rights:yes. end of story. you arent funny, dont try. EDIT also, im not a cultural relativist. I think some cultures are genuinely, 100% better than some other. BETTER. MORE RIGHT. Go read Ayne Rand if you disagree. She is really awesome, and people like her moral relativism from what Ive heard.

You start off by crticizing the backwards cultural tactics of african tribes, and how people shoould move on becuase its "2003", yet you enforce the defination of marriage bewtween only a man and a woman; something that was written thousands of years ago at the dawn of religion. You just contridicted yourself.

___________________
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-MARCO V

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax I still think its wrong.

quote:

I refuse to judge THEM i dont judge PEOPLE, but actions...free reign.

By judging their actions, your are judging them...their homosexual exist becuase they are HOMOSEXUAL. That is their lifestyle...their actions define who they are.

___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King You start off by crticizing the backwards cultural tactics of african tribes, and how people shoould move on becuase its "2003", yet you enforce the defination of marriage bewtween only a man and a woman; something that was written thousands of years ago at the dawn of religion. You just contridicted yourself.

Actually YOU contradicted me. Im fine still. I said that these countries are ass backwards and always have been and there are time honored things worth keeping. Like I said I believe that there are certain things better than others.

also, consistency is the hobgoblin of a small mind

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King By judging their actions, your are judging them...their homosexual exist becuase they are HOMOSEXUAL. That is their lifestyle...their actions define who they are.

Thats a matter of opinion. I think its fucked up that gay propaganda has gotten to the point where they actually make people believe that gayness and personhood are the same and if you dont accept one you dont accept the other.

fucking stupid. thats all I have to say about that particular argument.