I did not vote cause my belief is not stated in the options so I will describe it.

I believe that the only thing that exist is me. It may sound self centered but you prove to me that you exist. So in my belief is that everything around me and everyone could or could not exist, I don't know, I only thing I can prove is that I myself exist, That does not mean that my body itself exist persay my conscious mind. So ask yourself how can I be certain so-so exist?

I will leave with that question for you to ponder. I'm open to be flamed or questioned, just remember to ask yourself that question before you decide to post, it might answer any problems or questions you may have.

I put cookie monster because I belive that 'the big bang theory' is about as far-fetched as creationism.


I have one question though. Keep in mind I am absolutly clueless when it comes to religion but....

If it all started with Adam and Eve. Wouldn't their kids and their kids kids have to commit incest to populate the planet? And same with the whole Noah's ark thing? Doesn't inbreding end up make making the person retarded after a while? I know when you inbreed birds they become all fucked up after after a couple generations.

Sorry if these questions have been answered a thousand times but I have always wondered. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by jesten I put cookie monster because I belive that 'the big bang theory' is about as far-fetched as creationism. I have one question though. Keep in mind I am absolutly clueless when it comes to religion but.... If it all started with Adam and Eve. Wouldn't their kids and their kids kids have to commit incest to populate the planet? And same with the whole Noah's ark thing? Doesn't inbreding end up make making the person retarded after a while? I know when you inbreed birds they become all fucked up after after a couple generations. Sorry if these questions have been answered a thousand times but I have always wondered. Thanks.

Then again, the big band and evolution don't necessarily have t go together. Evolution is essentially proven now, we've observed it in operation, and have direct evidence of it's validity (transitional fossils and so on). I'm not up to date on the status of the big bang theory, there should be someone about who has working knowledge of all the 'first cause' theories and their respective status'.

As for the Adam and Eve point, yes, spot on. I'm yet to see a decent refutation of this from the YECs, as Christians generally deplore any suggestion of incest, let alone incest itself.

This is actually quite interesting. Assuming that the first life on earth was a (single?) one-cell organism, then wouldn't every living thing on earth be in incest. We've all got the same (single cell) mummy!

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quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 What's wrong with trying to fathom? And furthermore, if God literally said these words, why does he continue to say them through man, and then man has to write them down? Couldn't God have done a better job giving his message with like, say, and earth-orbiting indestructible tablet of rules? Wouldn't that have been more appropriate from an all-knowing, all-powerful, glorious, majestic, great God? Why does an all-knowing, all-powerful, glorious, majestic, great God need to continue talking through a messenger (man writing stuff down in a book)? Honestly, that really doesn't sound too much like an all-knowing, all-powerful, glorious, majestic, great God to me. I mean, Zeus did a much better job than that, didn't he?

Because that would prove God's existance and undermine faith. He has been through this before. Horrible arguement, but I know he would say it.

quote:

Originally posted by StealthAssassin I did not vote cause my belief is not stated in the options so I will describe it. I believe that the only thing that exist is me. It may sound self centered but you prove to me that you exist. So in my belief is that everything around me and everyone could or could not exist, I don't know, I only thing I can prove is that I myself exist, That does not mean that my body itself exist persay my conscious mind. So ask yourself how can I be certain so-so exist? I will leave with that question for you to ponder. I'm open to be flamed or questioned, just remember to ask yourself that question before you decide to post, it might answer any problems or questions you may have.

Well, while you can't be 100% certain that there is anything other existing in the universe aside from you, you must admit it's very unlikely. You'd basically have to be an all-powerful entity which for sume reason decided to delude itself into believing it's an insignificant animal, yet still has the ability to make a complex simulation of the universe around us.

Now, about Adam and Eve, the bible is full of marital relations between close relatives, brothers and sisters, etc. I guess god thought it was ok to do that sort of things back in the days.

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Originally posted by occrider Hrrmmmmmmm. So now that the new testament says that killing is wrong, and that jesus died on the cross so we wouldn't have to die for our sins, we can start ignoring parts of the old testament that no longer "apply"? That sounds vaguely familiar for some reason. But, If that's the case, why does the new testament not specifically say that the old testament is now invalid? As a matter of fact, Jesus specifically "said" otherwise, "Do not imagine that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish them, but to complete them." (Matthew 5:17) "if you do wrong, then you may well be afraid; because it is not for nothing that the symbol of authority is the sword: it is there to serve God, too, as his avenger, to bring retribution to wrongdoers." (Romans 13:4) Luke 19:27, “Christ pronounced this judgement on those who rebelled against their king: ‘But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here, and slay them in my presence’(NASB). 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. (Matthew 15:1-9). Sounds to me like the death penalty is alive and well. /Why the hell am I even quoting the bible? Man I feel like an idiot using it as a source.

This never got a response.

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Originally posted by priveye03 This never got a response.

Many refutations here never received responses.

Strange that...

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Because that would prove God's existance and undermine faith. He has been through this before. Horrible arguement, but I know he would say it.

Indeed this is true - it would undermine the concept of faith - believing that which is untested or unobserved. I certainly concede that, and furthermore I have no problem with this concept for anyone of any religious background.

You bring this idea of faith (untested, unobserved) into the world of science (tested, observed) and law (logic, supposedly), then I start to get a little testy. This is where the fundies tend to step on toes the most, and this is where I do whatever in my power to stop them dead in their tracks. They can believe anything they want, so long as they keep those beliefs in the confines of their homes and church gatherings. Trickle those beliefs into places where they don't belong and they can and will be confronted with every time.

Hey hey - I've got 11 followers now!!! My church is growing.....

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Well, as I posted in the other thread ...

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quote:

Now, about Adam and Eve, the bible is full of marital relations between close relatives, brothers and sisters, etc. I guess god thought it was ok to do that sort of things back in the days.

See, I actually LIKE these parts of the bible ...

Genesis 19:32-36 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.


Drinking! Getting someone drunk to take advantage of them! Pre-Marital Sex! Incest! Bastard children! Incest x 2! I LOVE IT!

If Mel Gibson makes a film about that he's got my $8

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Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, while you can't be 100% certain that there is anything other existing in the universe aside from you, you must admit it's very unlikely. You'd basically have to be an all-powerful entity which for sume reason decided to delude itself into believing it's an insignificant animal, yet still has the ability to make a complex simulation of the universe around us.

Think about that statement, didn't God if he exist do the same exact thing. He was just some all powerful entity that got bored and simulated a world, in other believes he just created life for others to run around in his world, isn't it the exact same thing I believe except in my situation I created everything just cause I was bored. But in your case I don't exist as I was created by your mind...sounds odd but if you ask that question there is really no way you can disprove it IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider See, I actually LIKE these parts of the bible ... Genesis 19:32-36 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. Drinking! Getting someone drunk to take advantage of them! Pre-Marital Sex! Incest! Bastard children! Incest x 2! I LOVE IT! If Mel Gibson makes a film about that he's got my $8

And so how do you think we came to be? There weren't other people around.

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quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 And so how do you think we came to be? There weren't other people around.

E-VO-LU-TION
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=evolution

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quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 And so how do you think we came to be? There weren't other people around.

I respect your point of view but doesn't inbreeding cause birth defects? Correct me if I am wrong but I thought that was a well documented fact.