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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > George Bush and jobs that never came
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icyhandofcrap
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Cali

yea holy moly


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Old Post Apr-03-2004 00:23  United States
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smokeape
Lowland Trance Addict



Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Heart of Dixie

quote:
Originally posted by hooknife
Off the subjest..... WOW!!!! She is HOT!!!!


Yeah, no kidding! Down boy.. Down!....


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Neo and Farina ft Tiff Lacey - The Eternal (Will Holland Mix)

Old Post Apr-03-2004 00:54 
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occrider
Traveladdict



Registered: Oct 2000
Location: New York

quote:
Originally posted by xKaoSx
Isnt the 5.6% just the actual people who qualified for unemployment?
This is not including people who were fired and didnt qual for it as well as people who were unemployed for more than 6-12 months and their benefits ran out.

If you had to put an actual % on it wouldnt it be up in the 15-20% range or so? People who could actually work but just are too lazy or just cannot find work.


No. Look please read ALL that has been posted. Not only did I comment on this, but I provided the direct link to the statistical methods used to determine the unemployment rate by the labor department. The unemployment report is NOT determined by unemployment insurance.


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Old Post Apr-04-2004 06:26  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

quote:
Originally posted by xKaoSx
Isnt the 5.6% just the actual people who qualified for unemployment?
This is not including people who were fired and didnt qual for it as well as people who were unemployed for more than 6-12 months and their benefits ran out.

If you had to put an actual % on it wouldnt it be up in the 15-20% range or so? People who could actually work but just are too lazy or just cannot find work.


Ask Cal. He seems to be the resident expert on whether or not people on unemployment really look for work.

Old Post Apr-04-2004 09:23  United States
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Tranceporter99
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2004
Location:

i only read the first post because it pissed me of so much. WE JUST GOT 305,000 new jobs. which is an enormous relief. do research before you start typing


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Old Post Apr-04-2004 15:09  United States
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rainbow_marble
bling bling



Registered: Jul 2003
Location: København NV

its all bush's fault!

idiots

Old Post Apr-05-2004 03:47  Denmark
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hooknife
))(())(())((



Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Inside Layer 3

quote:
Originally posted by rainbow_marble
its all bush's fault!

idiots


NO! Its Clintons fault. More smoke and mirrors.


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Old Post Apr-05-2004 15:24  United States
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

Nice op-ed in the NYTimes. The emphasis of points are mine:

quote:
April 5, 2004
OP-ED COLUMNIST
We're More Productive. Who Gets the Money?
By BOB HERBERT

It's like running on a treadmill that keeps increasing its speed. You have to go faster and faster just to stay in place. Or, as a factory worker said many years ago, "You can work 'til you drop dead, but you won't get ahead."

American workers have been remarkably productive in recent years, but they are getting fewer and fewer of the benefits of this increased productivity. While the economy, as measured by the gross domestic product, has been strong for some time now, ordinary workers have gotten little more than the back of the hand from employers who have pocketed an unprecedented share of the cash from this burst of economic growth.

What is happening is nothing short of historic. The American workers' share of the increase in national income since November 2001, the end of the last recession, is the lowest on record. Employers took the money and ran. This is extraordinary, but very few people are talking about it, which tells you something about the hold that corporate interests have on the national conversation.

The situation is summed up in the long, unwieldy but very revealing title of a new study from the Center for Labor Market Studies at Northeastern University: "The Unprecedented Rising Tide of Corporate Profits and the Simultaneous Ebbing of Labor Compensation - Gainers and Losers from the National Economic Recovery in 2002 and 2003."

Andrew Sum, the center's director and lead author of the study, said: "This is the first time we've ever had a case where two years into a recovery, corporate profits got a larger share of the growth of national income than labor did. Normally labor gets about 65 percent and corporate profits about 15 to 18 percent. This time profits got 41 percent and labor [meaning all forms of employee compensation, including wages, benefits, salaries and the percentage of payroll taxes paid by employers] got 38 percent."

The study said: "In no other recovery from a post-World War II recession did corporate profits ever account for as much as 20 percent of the growth in national income. And at no time did corporate profits ever increase by a greater amount than labor compensation."

In other words, an awful lot of American workers have been had. Fleeced. Taken to the cleaners.

The recent productivity gains have been widely acknowledged. But workers are not being compensated for this. During the past two years, increases in wages and benefits have been very weak, or nonexistent. And despite the growth of jobs in March that had the Bush crowd dancing in the White House halls last Friday, there has been no net increase in formal payroll employment since the end of the recession. We have lost jobs. There are fewer payroll jobs now than there were when the recession ended in November 2001.

So if employers were not hiring workers, and if they were miserly when it came to increases in wages and benefits for existing employees, what happened to all the money from the strong economic growth?

The study is very clear on this point. The bulk of the gains did not go to workers, "but instead were used to boost profits, lower prices, or increase C.E.O. compensation."

This is a radical transformation of the way the bounty of this country has been distributed since World War II. Workers are being treated more and more like patrons in a rigged casino. They can't win.

Corporate profits go up. The stock market goes up. Executive compensation skyrockets. But workers, for the most part, remain on the treadmill.

When you look at corporate profits versus employee compensation in this recovery, and then compare that, as Mr. Sum and his colleagues did, with the eight previous recoveries since World War II, it's like turning a chart upside down.

The study found that the amount of income growth devoured by corporate profits in this recovery is "historically unprecedented," as is the "low share ... accruing to the nation's workers in the form of labor compensation."

I have to laugh when I hear conservatives complaining about class warfare. They know this terrain better than anyone. They launched the war. They're waging it. And they're winning it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/05/opinion/05HERB.html


Yea free market capitalism! Yea Bush! Keep f$cking the workers, who the hell cares anymore?


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Apr-06-2004 18:04  United States
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Bronze
YESSS



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Ouaieuu

quote:
Originally posted by rainbow_marble
its all bush's fault!

idiots


Who's idiots???
I think is you!!!

Old Post Apr-06-2004 18:42  Brunei
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by Bronze
Who's idiots???
I think is you!!!


He's being sarcastic, sir.


___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Old Post Apr-06-2004 18:44  United States
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

For starters, the President doesn't create jobs, the economy does.

Secondly, here's a good op/ed piece from the right-wing extremist Wall Street Journal.
Jobs jobs jobs

quote:
Jobs, Jobs, Jobs

By DAVID MALPASS
April 6, 2004; Page A16

The stock market reacted positively to Friday's strong jobs report, especially growth-sensitive Nasdaq, even though the bond market began to price-in earlier interest rate hikes. The report showed that more than half a million net new jobs were created in the first quarter. Stocks supposedly fear rate hikes and value companies that scrimp on employees. And they've already priced in all-time record corporate profits. So why the celebration?

The explanation for the stock rally after the jobs report is twofold. Despite its many flaws, the jobs report has become a key election issue -- the stronger the report, the better the chances for President Bush's re-election -- and this election will likely determine the taxation of equities, high or low, for years to come.

The stock-market logic goes like this: The 2003 tax cut lowered taxes on stocks, but only through 2008. The extension of the tax cuts is critical to the value of equities, which have added $3 trillion in market capitalization since the 2003 cuts were enacted. Because the candidates have been quite clear on their stance toward extending the key growth provisions of the 2003 tax cut, a Bush victory and Republican gains in the Senate likely mean lower taxes on capital, more capital and higher stock prices -- and the reverse if John Kerry wins.

The second reason equities liked the strong jobs report is because it might finally break through the risk aversion still dominating corporate America's decision-making. Given the trauma of the 2000-2001 deflation, the stock market crash, the intense regulatory backlash and 9/11, established businesses like those surveyed in Friday's jobs report have been unusually cautious about the outlook. Though new surveys show rising business confidence, companies have preferred cash over inventory, investments and employees.


In the aggregate, businesses normally invest more than their cash flow, adding debt as they grow. The last year has seen a remarkable degree of corporate caution, with growth in new investment falling well short of the growth in cash flow for the first time on record. This also shows up in the record-low level of inventories relative to sales in recent months, and in the reluctance of established businesses to hire when bad memories of the 2000-2001 downsizing are still fresh.

The good news is that companies now have much higher cash balances and much lower inventories than usual. Delivery times are rising rapidly, creating the prospect that underinvestment may be as costly now as overinvestment used to be. The result will probably be a snapback, with Friday's evidence of job growth a possible trigger for added corporate investment.

Underlying the debate over the stock market, the jobs report and the election is a fundamental question about the nature of the outlook. Is this a durable expansion built on small businesses, a flexible labor force, innovation and lower tax rates? Or is it, as some still argue, a "jobless recovery" led by a temporary consumption binge and fueled by debt, tax rebates and mortgage refinancings? I think the data clearly point to the former interpretation and refute the latter.

By itself, the Friday jobs report won't decide the debate. The jobs report isn't a defining indicator of the economy or the election. It's really the other way around. Job growth comes from a strong economy and good economic policies, especially reasonable tax rates and a stable dollar. In 2004, the U.S. economy is enjoying a durable expansion, with low unemployment by historical standards. Even lower would be better.

The political charge is that previous recoveries created more jobs than this one. There are many problems with this contention, but the big-picture error is that previous recoveries took place at higher unemployment levels, were caused by inflation, and aren't comparable. It doesn't make much sense to compare today's job growth rate, when unemployment is 5.7%, to 1984's recovery, when unemployment was at 7.5%.

Indeed, for more than 20 years, the U.S. has enjoyed a declining unemployment rate trend. The peaks in unemployment following a recession have been steadily lower, as have been the troughs in the heart of the expansions. The trend underpins high levels of investment, consumption and land values and protects the dollar from the believers in the "dollar crash" scenario.

The establishment survey suffers from over-hype. In a given quarter, more than 7.5 million jobs are created and roughly that number lost, with the difference -- 179,000 in the fourth quarter, 513,000 more in the first quarter -- being the job growth shown in the establishment survey. It is based on a statistical sample seeking to measure small changes in a large number, the 131 million U.S. non-farm labor force. It's like taking the temperature in one city per state, then asking people to guess whether the average temperature for the whole nation is 51.3 degrees or 51.4 degrees.

It may take another year or more for economists to form a clear view on the strength and sustainability of the 2002-2004 expansion. I'd like to see the unemployment rate lower in coming months, but even at the current unemployment rate, the jobs report, combined with other strong data, raises the prospect that there has been a systematic underestimate of the strength and durability of the expansion, now two-and-a-half years old.

The underestimation stems from an insistence among analysts on comparing this cycle to previous ones, including the job-creation process. Macro-economics seems wedded to cycle theory, the idea that business cycles are similar. The problem is that the world is changing too fast to rely heavily on past cycles.

The current cycle is unique because of its deflationary nature, reflected even today in an out-of-touch 1% overnight interest rate. Unlike previous cycles, the strong-dollar deflation saw vast growth without much inflation and ended in an investment bubble. The downturn started in late 2000 with an unusually low 3.9% unemployment rate, which peaked at 6.3% in June 2003, further setting it apart.

Despite the naysayers, the recovery has become a durable expansion, with mild inflation and higher interest rates coming into view. In many ways, Friday's jobs report just confirms what we already knew from other data. The U.S. employment situation is strong, improving, and still the envy of the economic world.

Mr. Malpass is chief global economist at Bear, Stearns.


Old Post Apr-06-2004 20:04  United States
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