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Originally posted by sponger deterrent?? have you ever thought about the fact that a country like iran could sell or give these kind of weapons to terrorists for them to use??

Yes, a deterrent.

Have you ever thought about the fact that the CIA and US Goverment trained and set up al-Qaida, death squads in El Salvador, sponsored and trained many terrorist operations, and has overthrown legitimately elected democratic goverments? Have you ever thought about the fact that the US is the biggest sponsorer of terrorism in the world? Have you ever heard of the term state sponsored terrorism?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Yes, a deterrent. Have you ever thought about the fact that the CIA and US Goverment trained and set up al-Qaida, death squads in El Salvador, sponsored and trained many terrorist operations, and has overthrown legitimately elected democratic goverments? Have you ever thought about the fact that the US is the biggest sponsorer of terrorism in the world? Have you ever heard of the term state sponsored terrorism?

omg, i love how you let your anti americanism take over and changed the subject to america, but you haven't at all addressed the very likely possibility of iran selling weapons or materials for wmds not only to terrorists but other countries. you might not be worried about iran having wmd's (due to a lack of understanding of consequences) but most of the world is, hence the efforts from Europe, Russia, and the US to try and stop them from doing so.
Also, the US did not train and set up "al qaida" as we know it today, they supported the mujahideen to oppose the soviet unions invasion and al qaida was formed later. and im not going to get in on the other things, all were done for US's own self interest and whether you think they were wrong or not is your opinion, but please stay on subject!!

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Originally posted by sponger omg, i love how you let your anti americanism take over and changed the subject to america, but you haven't at all addressed the very likely possibility of iran selling weapons or materials for wmds not only to terrorists but other countries.

Coming to grips with the painful realities of our Nation's dark history shouldn't be considered as unpatriotic.

Recognizing and correcting both our continued overt and covert efforts to imperialistically mold the world as we see fit is actually a positive step towards correcting the many problems which we have already created. Just like an addiction, the first step towards recovery is in recognizing that you have a problem - then you go on to take measures to either treat or correct it.

Now, I'm definitely not saying that any of this will absolve us of our past transgressions (far from it) - but it's definitely a good step in the right direction.

If really want to tread the moral high ground, you actually need to behave morally - instead of being duplicitous by just pretending that you are.

Anyway, if there's anything that we should be worried about, it's what happened to those Russian suitcase nukes which disappeared several years ago. Gee, I wonder who's hands they may have already fallen into. You don't hear much about that one, do you?


http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29109

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Alexei Yablokov is a former science advisor on President Yeltsin’s Russian Security Council and is presently a respected member of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Dr. Yablokov has been an outspoken champion of environmental issues in Russia, and is particularly concerned about environmental and national security hazards that could arise from mismanagement of the Russian nuclear stockpile. As a reknowned scientist who has been active in the Russian government, Dr. Yablokov has come into contact with Russian nuclear weapon scientists and engineers who have designed and managed Russia’s nuclear arsenal. In recent press statements and a television interview, Dr. Yablokov said he can independently verify the existence of the small, man-portable “suitcase” nuclear weapons that Aleksandr Lebed, former Secretary of the Russian Security Council, has alleged are missing and possibly in terrorist hands. Lebed’s allegations about missing Russian nuclear weapons first came to light when I led a congressional delegation to Russia and met with Lebed on May 30. Lebed told us that, while still acting in his capacity as Secretary of the Russian Security Council, he had conducted a study of the Russian military’s accounting for its nuclear weapons, and found that the military had lost track of 84 suitcase-sized nuclear bombs, any one of which could kill up to 100,000 people. The Russian government has officially denied the existence of such weapons. However, according to the transcript of the television interview with Dr. Yablokov, Russian TV ran video footage showing a “suitcase” nuclear bomb. No one in the West, and few in Russia, know for sure whether dozens of small nuclear weapons, ideal for terrorist use, are unaccounted for and perhaps in the wrong hands. The important point is that increases in crime, corruption, incompe-tence, and institutional decay are so advanced in Russia that the theft of nuclear weapons, unthinkable in the Soviet war machine of the Cold War, seems entirely plausible in the Russia of today. The mere possibility that terrorists or rogue states may have acquired some Russian nuclear weapons should be a matter of gravest concern to the governments of the West. http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/con..._h/h971002w.htm

Are Suitcase Nukes on the Loose? The Story Behind the Controversy

Russian Politician (Lebed) Dies in Plane Crash

ok, when did i say it was unpatriotic!? painful realities of our nation's dark history??? it's "dark history" is a matter of opinion! just like you may consider the afghanistan or iraq war a part of our "dark history", others may not. again, id rather not stray off to other subjects.
yes we should be worried about what happened to the suitcases, but obviously iran creating nuclear weapons is also of great concern. that is why they should not be allowed to enrich uranium and many countries are trying to stop them. then you have people like shaolin who say iran should be allowed to do it

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Originally posted by sponger ok, when did i say it was unpatriotic!?

Isn't that how one would classify what you are calling anti-Americanism, as being unpatriotic?

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painful realities of our nation's dark history??? it's "dark history" is a matter of opinion! just like you may consider the afghanistan or iraq war a part of our "dark history", others may not. again, id rather not stray off to other subjects.

I really wasn't talking about Afghanistan or Iraq, I was more or less referring to the CIA trained death squads that terrorized Latin American, which shaolin_z briefely noted.

So as long as the ends justify the means, you see killing innocent civilians as the morally correct thing to do, right?

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Originally posted by Trancer-X I really wasn't talking about Afghanistan or Iraq, I was more or less referring to the CIA trained death squads that terrorized Latin American, which shaolin_z briefely noted. So as long as the ends justify the means, you see killing innocent civilians as the morally correct thing to do, right?

Well isn't a good thing for those death squads? Keep the public afraid and that is the way of controlling the drug trade. Control of drug trade=Lots of more money to continue secret wars.
Looks like our guys are doing a great job.