quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Everything to you is a privilege. A privilege granted by who? By the government? The way society is supposed to operate is to give freedom to all and THEN restrict the behaviours that are harmful or violate the rights of other individuals. You seem to view society as an all-controlling government that restricts everything and then opens up little nooks for people. That's called communism. Incidentally, there isn't *ANY* reliable evidence to support your assertion that our planet/environment is "in terrible shape", which you so casually mention as if it's somehow common knowledge. Yes, there are measurables like greenhouse emissions and temperature gradients, but since we really only started looking at those things in the 50s, we have no way of knowing whether the changes are actually caused by us or are simply cyclical natural phenomena. We need MUCH more time to determine that. Geesh... I know that there are *some* well-spoken Liberals out there, but most of them just seem to be power-hungry kooks wanting to impose their beliefs on the rest of the world without having to justify them.

OK then, justify how owning an SUV is a right? Because if you give me a good reason why I have the right to have one, I want mine now.

I really think you need to look into perspective what is a right, and what is a privelage/bonus/luxury. To me, a right is a basic NEED, like: air, food, water, safety, love, shelter. You know, those things you cannot live without.

As for how the world is in rough shape, it is common knowledge to me after taking so many classes to study up on it. Perhaps they were feeding me biased made up garbage, but from what I was learning, things are not in the greatest of shape. If you didn't know, Canada has the most fresh water resources on the planet, and slowly we are using all of this up, and successfully polluting the crap out of it too. We also clear cut billions of trees, a resource we need to clean the air, we emit gasses and other garbage into the air that has PROVEN to deteriorate our o-zone, which in turn has been causing global warming, and plenty of other weird natural phenomenons.

We have caused many a species to be extinct, we have made it so people are easily getting ill from the shit that we offer to them. We are our own destruction, and something needs to be done to stop us from ruining the chance for people after us to HAVE THE RIGHT to live comfortably, without gas masks, without contaminated water, without the constant fear of a flood from the ice caps melting, or an ice age. The opportunity to know what trees are, and what a jungle or a forest is. These are rights. Not for people to drive a stupid freaking vehicle around that is nothing but a hinderance to our planet.

Try doing some searches on it, and you will see some things that are shocking; almost scary.

Sometimes, the logic you people have really confuses me.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa OK then, justify how owning an SUV is a right? Because if you give me a good reason why I have the right to have one, I want mine now. I really think you need to look into perspective what is a right, and what is a privelage/bonus/luxury. To me, a right is a basic NEED, like: air, food, water, safety, love, shelter. You know, those things you cannot live without.

So in your view, the only thing people have a right to are the bare necessities of life.

Do you not realize how preposterous that sounds? We also have the right to freedom. The right to think, be, and do what we want as long as it doesn't harm other people or violate their rights. Other PEOPLE - not the ENVIRONMENT. The environment doesn't have some kind of intrinsic value independent of its usefulness to us. The environment doesn't even exist independently of what we define it to be.

And we have the right to own private property. That means that SUVs are the property of whoever made them or currently owns them. Rights are not guarantees, so don't start with this "I want mine now" bullcrap - you have the right to own one but you still have to pay for it, because if you don't, it's the private property of someone else.

quote:

As for how the world is in rough shape, it is common knowledge to me after taking so many classes to study up on it. Perhaps they were feeding me biased made up garbage, but from what I was learning, things are not in the greatest of shape. If you didn't know, Canada has the most fresh water resources on the planet, and slowly we are using all of this up, and successfully polluting the crap out of it too. We also clear cut billions of trees, a resource we need to clean the air, we emit gasses and other garbage into the air that has PROVEN to deteriorate our o-zone, which in turn has been causing global warming, and plenty of other weird natural phenomenons. We have caused many a species to be extinct, we have made it so people are easily getting ill from the shit that we offer to them. We are our own destruction, and something needs to be done to stop us from ruining the chance for people after us to HAVE THE RIGHT to live comfortably, without gas masks, without contaminated water, without the constant fear of a flood from the ice caps melting, or an ice age. The opportunity to know what trees are, and what a jungle or a forest is. These are rights. Not for people to drive a stupid freaking vehicle around that is nothing but a hinderance to our planet.

I think the fact that you refer to it as "o-zone" is a pretty good indication of how "educated" you are on the subject, so let's not get all high-and-mighty here.

I'll make this simple:

Do you have ANY proof whatsoever that any of these things are going to kill us, melt the ice caps and flood the earth, lead us into an ice age, contaminate all our water, or require us to wear gas masks 24/7?

We have technology. We have climate control, air purification, water purification. In fact, we have renewable energy sources that we haven't even begun to explore yet - not because of the "fossil fuel conspiracy" or any of that bullshit, but because of government regulations on business and technology.

The earth is billions of years old, and "environmental science" has been around for less than 50. Do you honestly think that the people who write these textbooks have ANY clue that these things will happen? These "threats" are nothing but scare tactics - completely made-up junk science in order to impose their beliefs on someone else. They're no better than predictions of the Second Coming or the Rapture.

quote:

Try doing some searches on it, and you will see some things that are shocking; almost scary.

Yes, things written by people who don't have a clue. Why should I let those scare me? You shouldn't believe everything you hear or read. I can write scary end-of-the-world stories too, you know. And I'm sure I could come up with several pages of logic and rhetoric that careless readers would not bother to question.

quote:

Sometimes, the logic you people have really confuses me.

That's because logic in general seems to be a foreign concept to you.

___________________
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2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Americans are idiots for many reasons, but being ignorant of the real world isn't one of them. THAT honour falls to the Canadians, and comments like the one you just posted are the proof.

sed -e 's/ignorant/arrogant/g'

Maybe arrogant is a better word for you? A case can be made for both, and can be seen in their pure and utter contempt towards that which is un-American.

Canadians are ignorant? Maybe so; granted it's subjective and left up to individual interpretation based on unique perspectives and stances.

However at least we have the galls to ratify the Kyoto accord despite the shorter term economic costs. And we know that anything that infringes on the pocketbooks of the rich, and the rights of the few is no good!

I ask you, what would Jesus drive? The irony being that most of my negative connotations towards Americans are only based on those who live in Jesus Land. (click for map)

Many Americans are ignorant i'll admit.

But whats worse are Canadians who are both ignorant AND arrogant since they wrongly think they know so much about the rest of the world. They don't.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Many Americans are ignorant i'll admit. But whats worse are Canadians who are both ignorant AND arrogant since they wrongly think they know so much about the rest of the world. They don't.

I concur. However Americans have more ignoramuses per capita :P

quote:

Originally posted by SurrJRS I concur. However Americans have more ignoramuses per capita :P

It depends.... i think both countries are just as ignorant but show it in different ways.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by SurrJRS Maybe arrogant is a better word for you? A case can be made for both, and can be seen in their pure and utter contempt towards that which is un-American. Canadians are ignorant? Maybe so; granted it's subjective and left up to individual interpretation based on unique perspectives and stances.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 ...whats worse are Canadians who are both ignorant AND arrogant since they wrongly think they know so much about the rest of the world. They don't.

SurrJRS: You say yourself that it's subjective, so you can't possibly be any more right in saying that Americans are idiots as I am in saying that Canadians are. Most Americans don't have contempt for that which is "un-American" - have you actually spent any significant time in the USA, or around Americans?

Canadians, on the other hand, definitely DO possess pure and utter contempt toward that which IS American.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut have you actually spent any significant time in the USA, or around Americans?

Unfortunately yes. :P

All kidding aside, some of my best friends are American and know my curses are solely directed to a generalized perception of their country/Jesus Land. But I remind you that most stereotypes and perceptions usually have some merit to them, otherwise they would not exist. Certainly this perception is not moot to a lot of people.

quote:

Canadians, on the other hand, definitely DO possess pure and utter contempt toward that which IS American.

Can you blame us? I don't think our stance is any different from what the rest of the world (minus Tony Blair) thinks. And even some Americans *cough* Democrats *cough* think this way too.

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Originally posted by SurrJRS Can you blame us? I don't think our stance is any different from what the rest of the world (minus Tony Blair) thinks. And even some Americans *cough* Democrats *cough* think this way too.

Mmmhm... and does the popularity of a belief make it correct?

The rest of the world might have a point, but Canada really ought to shut up, since the actual differences between Canada and the USA are pretty superficial. Especially considering that most of Canada's culture is essentially ripped off from U.S. culture - and not from U.S. culture in general, but from its worst dregs. Britney Spears, McDonald's, etc...

We're a USA copycat and I think that gives many of us some sort of inferiority complex, hence the need to bash them all the time. A large part of Europe, I believe, is also just upset that they lack any real power anymore (not to say that power is everything, but Europe's been on the decadent side since the cold war).

I'm not saying this out of anger or defensiveness... this is honestly what I believe to be true based on research and observation.

Look, the point is - you can take any country, state, culture, or virtually any arbitrary group whatsoever, pick out the worst visible elements of that group, and use it to make that group look bad. But that's nothing more than a compositional fallacy, it doesn't mean that the group as a whole is bad, and American "culture" (I use the term loosely as I'm aware that they don't really *have* a culture), despite all its flaws, has proven to be one of the most successful and sustainable throughout history.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut ... and American "culture" (I use the term loosely as I'm aware that they don't really *have* a culture), despite all its flaws, has proven to be one of the most successful and sustainable throughout history.

I wonder if the Romans thought the same thing.

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"Kiss them for me...for I may be delayed."

quote:

Originally posted by RobbyG. I wonder if the Romans thought the same thing.

Perhaps they did, perhaps they didn't. The USA doesn't really have much in common with the Roman empire aside from its wealth and success, and it's already been around longer than the Romans were.

Seems like it's fashionable these days to liken the USA to ancient Rome, but as fashionable as it is, it's not a very useful comparison.

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Seems like it's fashionable these days to liken the USA to ancient Rome, but as fashionable as it is, it's not a very useful comparison.

I find both societies similar in a way.The U.S. preaches "democracy & freedom" worldwide & is trying to push Iraq into it when that part of the world has been "tribal" going back a thousand years.I'm not a history major but I do believe that the Roman Empire & its armies conquered vast areas to impose their way of life as well...

HAIL Ceasar aka Bush

___________________
"Kiss them for me...for I may be delayed."