quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J And there's 99.9% of vocal trance that's so painfully shit it's made the genre a laughing stock over the last five years. And if you can't focus on an instrumental piece for 8 minutes a time, you're listening to the wrong type of music, my friend.

It goes without saying that there is a lot of vocal junk, but a 99.9% figure is grossly misinformed. You're either listening to the wrong vocal trance, or you have really bad taste in music. There is nothing preventing instrumental trance from becoming just as "cheesy" as vocal. Lyrics are minor, unless they are overly cliched and complemented with cheap commercial patterns.

quote:

And there's 99.9% of vocal trance that's so painfully shit it's made the genre a laughing stock over the last five years.

I'd listen to trance-cheese any day over american mainstream filth. Pop and Rock have immeasurably surpassed trance in tacky lyrics that sing about the same love theme over and over. Not even junkie vocal trance could hope to have the "laughinstock" crown.

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes I'd listen to trance-cheese any day over american mainstream filth. Pop and Rock have immeasurably surpassed trance in tacky lyrics that sing about the same love theme over and over. Not even junkie vocal trance could hope to have the "laughinstock" crown.

Yes, because all the genres of music in the world are:

Trance, pop, rock and hip-hop

aren't they?

There's no house, no techno, no hardcore, no ambient, no breaks and no jungle even in EDM, not to mention the thousands of non electronic genres from classical to jazz.

Lyrics don't mean shit- it's the fact that the music that makes up vocal trance is utterly pathetic. Even so, you seriously think trance lyrics are any better than pop lyrics? You're having a laugh, mate.

You say I have bad taste in music? That's a fucking insult. My musical tastes aren't limited to about three tiny genres and I have a lot more open mind than you. Because I don't like the cha-chink money making bullshit that gives you a funny feeling because your emotionally retarded means I have bad taste? You're a living joke on these forums both thanks to your ignorance and your awful tastes in music.

My tastes aren't perfect, but at least I have a clue what I'm talking about and I listen to more than just fluffy vocal trance cack.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Yes, because all the genres of music in the world are: Trance, pop, rock and hip-hop aren't they? There's no house, no techno, no hardcore, no ambient, no breaks and no jungle even in EDM, not to mention the thousands of non electronic genres from classical to jazz. Lyrics don't mean shit- it's the fact that the music that makes up vocal trance is utterly pathetic. Even so, you seriously think trance lyrics are any better than pop lyrics? You're having a laugh, mate. You say I have bad taste in music? That's a fucking insult. My musical tastes aren't limited to about three tiny genres and I have a lot more open mind than you. Because I don't like the cha-chink money making bullshit that gives you a funny feeling because your emotionally retarded means I have bad taste? You're a living joke on these forums both thanks to your ignorance and your awful tastes in music. My tastes aren't perfect, but at least I have a clue what I'm talking about and I listen to more than just fluffy vocal trance cack.

You're just blowing smoke. I never categorized you as having bad taste in music, I made it a possibility. Of course, you amplify the hypocrisy and irony of your own position by ensuing to INSULT my taste in music.

"You're a living joke on these forums both thanks to your ignorance and your awful tastes in music"--system J

quote:

There's no house, no techno, no hardcore, no ambient, no breaks and no jungle even in EDM, not to mention the thousands of non electronic genres from classical to jazz.

So what point are you trying to make, exactly? I love ambient (it's one of my favorites), New Age (probably an equally favorite genre of mine), House, Classical, jazz spanish, etc etc. Some of my favorite songs are in these categories.

quote:

Lyrics don't mean shit- it's the fact that the music that makes up vocal trance is utterly pathetic.

Here you are again making ludicrous blanket statements that undermine the little credibility that you might have left.

quote:

My tastes aren't perfect, but at least I have a clue what I'm talking about and I listen to more than just fluffy vocal trance cack.

In that case we aren't as far from being in harmony as your prolific imagination would have you believe.

Last edited by Hydarnes on May-08-2005 at 13:43

Several key points:

1. You didn't cite it as a possibility. You gave two distinct outcomes:

A) I somehow have missed all the "good" vocal trance you bang on about (which I haven't)
B) I must have bad taste for holding a different opinion to you on those tracks.

2. You don't even know what "ambient" means, as you've demonstrated repeatedly in the past.

3. I could roll out my "lyrics don't affect musical quality" argument, which has never been disproven, but it'd be wasted on you. So I'll just highlight that the "lyrics" in vocal trance are stock garbage going on about sunrises and missing loved ones. If you can give a genuine example of original trance lyrics that are more than a collection of mediocre poetic adjectives around a clichéd theme I'll concede a point.

4. As for the musical composition of vocal trance, I'd love to hear you defend it. Trance began to wash out just as vocals entered the equation, and if you take the vocals out of vocal trance what you're left with is by and large, terrible.

Oh, and the remark about genres was a rhetorical question.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

1. You didn't cite it as a possibility. You gave two distinct outcomes: A) I somehow have missed all the "good" vocal trance you bang on about (which I haven't) B) I must have bad taste for holding a different opinion to you on those tracks.

Well if the shoe fits wear it, right? Obviously you didn't hestitate to accuse me of precisely the thing that you took offense to. I couldn't have violated anything new.

quote:

2. You don't even know what "ambient" means, as you've demonstrated repeatedly in the past.

ROFL, don't spout this baloney. I know perfectly what ambient means and you've established quite clearly that you are prejudiced more than you are logical. Don't presume to tell me that I'm unfamiliar with practically my favorite genre of music.

quote:

3. I could roll out my "lyrics don't affect musical quality" argument, which has never been disproven, but it'd be wasted on you. So I'll just highlight that the "lyrics" in vocal trance are stock garbage going on about sunrises and missing loved ones. If you can give a genuine example of original trance lyrics that are more than a collection of mediocre poetic adjectives around a clich餟theme I'll concede a point. 4. As for the musical composition of vocal trance, I'd love to hear you defend it. Trance began to wash out just as vocals entered the equation, and if you take the vocals out of vocal trance what you're left with is by and large, terrible.

You know, I quite frankly don't care a lick whether or not you like vocal trance. I could argue just as well that all the synths in your non-vocal tracks are cliched and overdone, it's all a matter of perception. Vocal trance isn't intended to have highly intellectual lyrics, it's meant to put you in a trance with the melody, the synths pulling you in and the driving beat, lyrics are secondary. Singing about the sunrise is fine by me.

quote:

Oh, and the remark about genres was a rhetorical question.

Just try to avoid further embarrassment.

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes Well if the shoe fits wear it, right? Obviously you didn't hestitate to accuse me of precisely the thing that you took offense to. I couldn't have violated anything new.

Well if you were going to insult me I think I have every right to return the favour.

quote:

ROFL, don't spout this baloney. I know perfectly what ambient means and you've established quite clearly that you are prejudiced more than you are logical. Don't presume to tell me that I'm unfamiliar with practically my favorite genre of music.

List your favourite ambient tracks/albums/whatever then.

quote:

Vocal trance isn't intended to have highly intellectual lyrics, it's meant to put you in a trance with the melody, the synths pulling you in and the driving beat, lyrics are secondary. Singing about the sunrise is fine by me.

"Pop and Rock have immeasurably surpassed trance in tacky lyrics that sing about the same love theme over and over. Not even junkie vocal trance could hope to have the "laughinstock" crown."

So you admit that was a load of bullshit?

quote:

Just try to avoid further embarrassment.

Hell, I'm not the one answering rhetoric. My sarcastic comment which you took seriously was in reply to this gem:

"I'd listen to trance-cheese any day over american mainstream filth."

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Well if you were going to insult me I think I have every right to return the favour.

ROFL! The point is that you made a hypocritical insult while I hadn't even made a firm appropriation concerning your musical taste.

quote:

List your favourite ambient tracks/albums/whatever then.

So what is this? I'm on trial before the great arbiter of ambient music . Here's a few that I like :

Enya (all of her music)
Chicane - Saltwater (Thrillseekers Remix)
Solar Stone - Seven Cities (Ambient Mix)
Blank & Jones' Ambient works: Beyond Time, Desire, etc.
Accadia - Into the Dawn (ambient mix)
Airwave - Blue Lady (ambient mix)

...Too many to name...

quote:

"Pop and Rock have immeasurably surpassed trance in tacky lyrics that sing about the same love theme over and over. Not even junkie vocal trance could hope to have the "laughinstock" crown." So you admit that was a load of bullshit?

Well I suppose I could, but I'd have to be the biggest idiot on earth to not recognize the fact.

quote:

Hell, I'm not the one answering rhetoric. My sarcastic comment which you took seriously was in reply to this gem: "I'd listen to trance-cheese any day over american mainstream filth."

Please elucidate yourself. You seem to be hiding under a muddled position. Define exactly what you meant by:

"Oh, and the remark about genres was a rhetorical question."

And be less nebulous please

Last edited by Hydarnes on May-08-2005 at 16:42

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes So what is this? I'm on trial before the great arbiter of ambient music . Here's a few that I like : Enya (all of her music) Chicane - Saltwater (Thrillseekers Remix) Solar Stone - Seven Cities (Ambient Mix) Blank & Jones' Ambient works: Beyond Time, Desire, etc. Accadia - Into the Dawn (ambient mix) Airwave - Blue Lady ...Too many to name...

None of the above is ambient.

quote:

Originally posted by starglider None of the above is ambient.

ROFL...go take a hike

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes ROFL...go take a hike

Don't believe it? Or don't like being wrong?

Enya is the closest thing you posted to ambient, and only because she's released a fairly wide variety of music. She is much closer to new age than ambient.

The rest you posted are all your standard "chillout" mixes of trance tunes. Removing the kick drum from a trance tune does not suddenly turn it into ambient. I am not sure what the latest accepted definition of this type of music is; I have heard it called chillout, however. ************, it is most certainly not ambient. Examples of ambient (and some artists I like):

Brian Eno
Pete Namlook
Harold Budd
Biosphere
Steve Roach
Jonn Serrie

quote:

Originally posted by Hydarnes ROFL...go take a hike

Why, when he is right?

quote:

Originally posted by starglider Don't believe it? Or don't like being wrong? Enya is the closest thing you posted to ambient, and only because she's released a fairly wide variety of music. She is much closer to new age than ambient. The rest you posted are all your standard "chillout" mixes of trance tunes. Removing the kick drum from a trance tune does not suddenly turn it into ambient. I am not sure what the latest accepted definition of this type of music is; I have heard it called chillout, however. ************, it is most certainly not ambient. Examples of ambient (and some artists I like): Brian Eno Pete Namlook Harold Budd Biosphere Steve Roach Jonn Serrie

I'm quite aware that enya is New Age, yet she is also ambient.

The reason why I posted the ambient trance songs is because this is a trance board and we were primarily discussing (at least, in my mind) ambient trance.