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Originally posted by ogvh5150 Don't make assumptions into my being right. I do not pretend to be right just informed. The military project statement was about looking around for info and just relying on it's varnish as fact. Just read the code and whatever caselaw you can find. If you happen to come across anything for or against then share it. If you go to schiffs site or others related then good but be careful what they say. Read their arguments. there are quite a few people around that have lots of information. You'd have to read it before you can comment. Being that there is false info from both the gov't and others, you'd have to dessimate it yourself. You'd be able to see what makes sense and what doesn't.

There are many numerous websties, books and court cases arguing all various reasons why income taxes are either voluntary or illegal. I've done some reading and just as you state there are flaws in government sources, I have seen countless flaws in all the cases against income taxes I've read. If you believe in a particular argument against them or you don't pay income taxes, that's great, I'd love to hear what you have to say. I disagree with at least half the people in the forum on any given topic and I'll readily admit that I consider the points of others and will certainly consider yours, but I've also done a tremendous amount of research on similar topics, such as fractional banking and mortgage elimination theories and the largest group advocating such services just got busted after using many standard bank and tax fraud theories. I think my points that the IRS did have a clear starting point, that there are many court cases on record showing strong court opinions in favor of such taxation and that there are other items to consider beyond the U.S. codes are valid points to make in a discussion about the subject.

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Download My Spring '08 Mix Here

Thurs May 15: Influence @ Tini Martini w/ Kris B. vs. Nosmo, Rikler & Mike Palmeri
Thurs June 5: Under the Influence @ Tini Martini w/Mathias Matthew, Jack Kim & more TBA

One common bond is the W4 from what I can tell. Eliminate that and then you'd have progress.

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http://www.givemeliberty.org/

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Former IRS CID Special Agent Joseph Banister Acquitted of Tax Fraud And Conspiracy Government Unable To Prove U.S. Law Requires Income Tax Withholding or Filing Sacramento California -- On Thursday June 23, a federal jury found former IRS Criminal Investigative Division (CID) Special Agent and CPA Joseph Banister not guilty of all counts alleging criminal tax fraud and conspiracy related to actions he took on behalf of a California business owner who had openly defied the IRS over several years by stopping withholding of all income and employment taxes from the paychecks of his workers. During the trial the Department of Justice was unable to put forth any evidence that Banister had either engaged in a conspiracy or had acted unlawfully when he shared legal research with business owner Al Thompson concluding that he had no legal obligation to withhold taxes from his workers or when he (Banister) prepared corrected tax returns for Thompson claiming his taxable income was, under U.S. law, zero. During the trial, Banister's former supervisor at IRS’s San Jose CID office, Robert Gorini (who testified via video recording) when pointedly asked, was unable to cite any U.S. law that required Banister to pay income taxes. Banister, who was forced to resign in 1999 after questioning IRS officials about their legal authority, gave Thompson’s worker’s a presentation in 2000 which reviewed his detailed investigative research of U.S. tax law which concluded that not only did the IRS lack any authority to impose income taxes on the workers, but there was no legal requirement for the business to withhold any taxes from the worker's paychecks. Banister is part of a nationwide effort seeking to force the U.S. Government to respond to a series of detailed legal Petitions for Redress of Grievances directly challenging the authority of the IRS. Last summer, the We The People Foundation initiated a landmark lawsuit with 2000 plaintiffs against the government because it has refused to answer the Petitions. The Right-To-Petition lawsuit, of which Banister is a plaintiff, is the first time in history that U.S. courts have been asked to define the meaning of the final ten words of the First Amendment. Court documents for the RTP lawsuit and scholarly research regarding the Right to Petition can be downloaded from the Lawsuit Information Center on www.GiveMeLiberty.org. Following the verdict, Banister was greeted by a throng of WTP supporters and members of his family. Tomorrow, WTP will publish additional details of this important news and stream video of post-verdict interviews of Banister & several of the jurors.

About six to ten months ago WTP did a news conference that I caught on CNN. Once the URL was posted during the conference did their servers get overloaded.

I wonder why?

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"Some people who think that the Federal Reserve Banks United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lender. In that dark crew of financial pirates there are those who would cut a man's throat to get a dollar out of his pocket; there are those who send money into states to buy votes to control our legislatures; there are those who maintain International propaganda for the purpose of deceiving us into granting of new concessions which will permit them to cover up their past misdeeds and set again in motion their gigantic train of crime." - Honorable Louis T. McFadden, Former Chairman of the Banking and Currency Committee (1933)

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 I applaud your sharing this information. About a year ago, We The People had a news conference on CNN (whatever) once and when I went to check out their website it became unreachable. You, like I, are seeking answers to questions that the IRS refuses to answer. Do not be dissuaded by comments of people that don't have time to read Title 26. What people fail to realize is that the Constitution does not apply to the IRS since they use the US Code Title 26 and therefore expects John Q. Public to use the same. And since Johnny is expected to peform under 26 IRC it becomes de facto as opposed to de jure. And since people believe in "keeping with the Joneses", they do not care to challenge authority (public servants serve the public and not the opposite). Hmm, I wonder why the IRS doesn't "allow" a 1040 signed under duress... [sarcasm]No the IRS wouldn't intimidate anyone, no not them, they're the good guys.[/sarcasm] I like to study.

Where in the heck are you, ogvh5150?!?! I hope they didn't Extraordinary rendition your American ass!!!

This is a very poignant quote. Thanks for posting it (even if it was like two years ago!)

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"The continual intrusion into our minds of the hammering noises of arguments and propaganda can lead to two kinds of reactions. It may lead to apathy and indifference, the I-don't-care reaction, or to a more intensified desire to study and to understand. Unfortunately, the first reaction is the more popular one." - Joost A. M. Meerloo, M.D The Rape of the Mind: The Psychology of Thought Control, Menticide, and Brainwashing

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Originally posted by Shakka Or you could just operate on the Law of Murphy...if it sounds too good to be true, it is. I will gladly fuck with a collection agent till the cows come home, but I will not fuck with the IRS (unless of course it is a clear cut case of wrongdoing on my part). They are the last people I want on my ass.

This is what I would call "democracy failing" when people can't stand up to the government anymore.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by Beatflux This is what I would call "democracy failing" when people can't stand up to the government anymore.

it was a democracy that put those laws in place. even in a democracy, laws are expected to be enforced.

what you are suggesting is essentially the absence of democracy.

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Originally posted by Trancer-X I hope they didn't Extraordinary rendition your American ass!!!

wouldn't that be an oxymoron.

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Originally posted by Q5echo it was a democracy that put those laws in place. even in a democracy, laws are expected to be enforced. what you are suggesting is essentially the absence of democracy.

What right does government have to knowing how your income? Do you honestly expect 100% of the people to be honest on their taxes? There will always be fraud, cheats, and TAX EVASION. Thousands of business and people will get audited every year. A sales tax should be the only tax we have.

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Democracy is five wolves and one sheep voting on what's for dinner. It is the mob lynching an alleged murderer.

A republic is the people putting an alleged murderer on trial.

Many times have there been a mob mentality on this forum.

Instead of people arguing over whom should give up their income they should take a long gander at someone elses previous post:



Why is is only 10% is from corporate income? It's a rhetorical question btw.

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Originally posted by ogvh5150 Democracy is five wolves and one sheep voting on what's for dinner. It is the mob lynching an alleged murderer. A republic is the people putting an alleged murderer on trial. Many times have there been a mob mentality on this forum. Instead of people arguing over whom should give up their income they should take a long gander at someone elses previous post: Why is is only 10% is from corporate income? It's a rhetorical question btw.

Dude, try taxing corporations.

Here is what you'll get...

1. Powerful lobby groups will oppose it.
2. The economy will suffer.
3. The corporations will simply continue their flight overseas for cheaper costs.
4. Corporations will simply charge a tax fee on all their products.

In the end, corporate taxes are still paid by consumers. The solution is a sales tax on all transactions.

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