quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer lol wtf do you support exactly?

i support doing whatever it takes to foster the moderate majority in the greater Middle East.

...and all the human good that can come from it.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo i support doing whatever it takes to foster the moderate majority in the greater Middle East. ...and all the human good that can come from it.

I'm going to infer you mean invading Iraq..

Do you actually think invading Iraq has fostered a moderate majority? Look at the current situation. Has maderation won the upper-hand? NO. What moderate would stay in a country with so much lawlessness? Very few, that's how many. The moderates are gone my friend, to Jordan, Egypt, Europe, Syria, etc. Doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers, smart smart people, have left Iraq because of the chaos. War does not foster human good, or moderation. War defends it. You can't say we're going to war for moderation or human good. The reality of the situation proves my point.

Do you know Saddam Hussein was more afraid of Islamists within his country than the US ever was? Yet, this was one of the excuses for the 2003 invasion. Do you know that Al-Qaida is stronger, not weaker than before 2001?

Do you have an understanding of national sovereignty? Without respect for sovereignty, our civilized world goes back to the stone age. Iraq violated no sovereignty in 2003, so why does the US have an excuse to do so itself? The US can't just go into any country it wants based on trumped up charges. Afghanistan under the Taliban supported Al-Qaida, which attacked the US. That invasion is justified under the violation of sovereignty of the US by Al-Qaida, and by supporting AQ, the Taliban.

Why hasn't the US invaded North Korea for WMDs which the North Koreans proved by testing a nuclear device successfully?

I ask you to not look at the senario through the one-sided view of a staunch conservative or liberal. Just look at the facts, the definitions, and see that the Bush Administration has betrayed the trust of the world, country, and ESPECIALLY conservatives and Republicans such as ourselves. I'm proud of my views, but I don't let them blind me to the truth of reality.

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I'm proud of my views, but I don't let them blind me to the truth of reality.

when i say moderate i mean peaceful Iraqis. there are moderate Iraqis still in Iraq. they're helping us every day.

no human being should like whats going right now. no human being should have accepted what went on before with Saddam. doesn't mean for one second we should let it go on because our selfish Conservative principles got in the way and the more courageous ones take a back seat.

i know all about Saddam. he and his progeny needed to go, but Saddam was a big part of a larger picture. that picture is coming together. i know not fast enough for you to feel comfortable with while people hurl insults at your Conservative ideaology and tear away at what you, Krypton, thinks is a more right way of life, but those people didn't have any respect for you or me in the first place and sure as hell didn't give ANY respect due the sacrifices free men made while preserving those priciples for other free men.

i'm not stupid. i know the Greater Middle East will never have an American style democracy. but i know what peaceful people need in order to prosper in a country with Iraq's potential. peaceful Arabs live all over Arabia.this is nothing new. the extremism is new. the extermism or fascism whatever is new and peaceful, moderate Arabs and Muslims know it can't stay and it's going to take an American power to keep it away. maybe that's because we are there but that doesn't make the extremism less fraudulent in the eyes of peaceful Arabs who don't want us to leave.

our "trust around the world" means little if we can't we uphold the core values of what brought us the greatest democracies the world has ever known from the barrel of our guns.

i'm not sure you know what realities are happening right now while we help the children of Iraq prepare for a better future. i see a different reality than you do i guess. maybe a more optimistic one, who knows. doesn't make me insane or psychotic or crazy if thats what you were trying to imply.

yeah. thats why it's gonna hurt when you see Iraq succeed. and when Iraq succeeds then we've got something very special.

Last edited by Q5echo on Aug-15-2007 at 05:15

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i think the fringe-dwellers do more harm than good, by hijacking (valid) points of contention and annoying the crap out of everyone by merging it into their grand conspiracy mess(age). as Q5 said, there was nothing to gain by outright lying about WMDs, there's little doubt that those at the top were convinced of their existence. whether they lied to themselves is another question, but no rational politician would use WMDs as an excuse for invading a country if he didn't believe he would be vindicated afterwards by their discovery. that just doesn't make any sense.

Oh God, he's agreeing with Q now...

You really are turning into a right little prat!

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo nothing new. the extremism is new. the extermism or fascism whatever is new and peaceful, moderate Arabs and Muslims know it can't stay and it's going to take an American power to keep it away. maybe that's because we are there but that doesn't make the extremism less fraudulent in the eyes of peaceful Arabs who don't want us to leave.

Extremism is something new to you?as long as religions is around so will extremism.You wanna get rid of extremism then you must also get rid of religion.Invading a country will not solve your problems either.

quote:

i'm not sure you know what realities are happening right now while we help the children of Iraq prepare for a better future. i see a different reality than you do i guess. maybe a more optimistic one, who knows. doesn't make me insane or psychotic or crazy if thats what you were trying to imply.

Future?there are barely any children left in Iraq,and for the ones remaining,I dont see a bright future for the either.Sadly Iraq will remain to be a disaster zone for many years and it is just a matter of time before it becomes the old Afghanistan with a bunch of cavemen running the country.
You are living in a fantasy and this fantasy of yours and other like you and this administration is hurting alot of people.Iraq has failed and there is nothing anyone can do.How much more money have to be wasted before we see this fantasy of yours to become reality?how many more people have to die before you begin to realize whats going on here?
Staying in or leaving Iraq will not change a thing,the violence will continue and more people will die and this administration is to blame.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby Oh God, he's agreeing with Q now... You really are turning into a right little prat!

LOL, he's losing his sanity, a process that started a while ago.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Do you mean like you just did with another baseless ad hominem? lol

LOL

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z LOL, he's losing his sanity, a process that started a while ago.

Or his basic reasoning skills at least...

Hey Tancer-X, check this out:

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Thank you, Ray McGovern!!

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Hey Tancer-X, check this out:

I know, that's crazy. I heard that Cheney wasn't too happy that someone dug that up.

The end justifying the means.

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