quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew Hmm can you give me a source?

In Danish, I'm afraid:
http://politiken.dk/VisArtikel.sasp?PageID=435510

This will bring up another slew of editorials in the American press where Americans can't understand the Europeans

Recall that this happened a while back with the French headscarf-ban issue... And now, again, many American op-ed columnists will roll their eyes and wonder what's wrong with the "godless Europeans."

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Last edited by HardTranceProd on Feb-02-2006 at 17:58

Isn't getting all worked up and making minimal to no effort to understand why the other party is upset incredibly rational and praise worthy behaviour from a "civilized" people? I'm kind of pissed at Muslims and the West for making such a big deal out of something so incredibly stupid and trivial. Divide and conquer. *shakes head*

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

I love this one. Not only did the paper France Soir publish the cartoons, but they ran this on their front page:



Under the headline "Yes, we have the right to caricature God", France Soir covered its front with Buddha, the Christian and Jewish deities and the Prophet all sitting on a cloud. The Christian God says: "Don’t complain Muhammad, all of us have been caricatured."

As can be expected, Muslims all over are up in arms ready to shoot something. A few people have been fired at various papers. You can be sure this will spark a 'limits to free press' debate. Which, of course, is ludicrous.

I imagine things will die down after a few weeks (unless someone is assasinated). Things will return to 'normal' until the next story is published and gets everyone riled up again. Seems as if these things are on a cycle.

Please Please All Muslims that read this you are being rediculous in your claims that this is not right...that is all oh and tell your extremists that they shouldnt do something stupid as it will just look worse for you

Serveral things on this:
Denmark is right, Arab world wrong.

I applaud trancaholic and St_Andrew in their passion about this, it is for them, more than just cartoons (just as I imagine it is for the muslims as well... just I can't palce it).

Next, congrats Trancaholic on coming to terms with the demagogary of Bill Clinton. Welcome to reality, it an't pretty, but it is what it is. Occrider, its harsh of you to make fun of Trancaholic's reaons to come to terms with Bill - I think most of us (me certianly) have all at somepoint and time (and many still) been entranced by the words of Bill and his aura. He's a great speaker, but he's like the pied poper, he plays what we want to hear. And sure this might be trivial, but for everyone there was an event, large or small, that broke us out of Bill's spell, to realize he's just a nobody really and will do and say whatever brings him praise. For me like you, it was many years back (2001) but for others it is recent.

Lastely, Occrider, this is not like the Swedish incident for several reasons:
1) It was a government-sponsored art exhibit.
2) Israel's govenor was purposely invited to this government-sponosred art exhibit about the middle east conflict (Imagine if Iran's Mullahs were invited to an exhibit about "tolerance of the world's religions" only to find these caricatures, it would be as equally tasteless and I would have no issues if they would have picked them up and torn them to pieces).
3) Israel's response was shame on your intolerance and incomprehension, not lets boycott all of Sweden.
4) Sweden told Israel's ambassador to leave, they did not pull their embassy out.
5) Israelis and Jews did not congregate to boycott Swedish products.
6) It had nothing to do with religion.

OK I'm done

I'm going to go run to the store to buy some Danish cheese (trancaholic any recommendaitons?)

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I'm sure you Vikings will give in to these Muslims... Europeans love to appease

However horrible it is to face this fact, it seems like your comment just became a sad distorted joke:

quote:

Self-censorship arrives in America Has the violently negative reaction of Muslims regarding the Mohammed cartoon controversy in Europe traveled to the United States, self-censoring criticism of Islam here? There are some chilling indications. Reporting on the events in Europe for NBC Nightly News and MSNBC News, reporter Donna Friesen forthrightly stated “we’ve chosen not to show” the cartoons. Chosen? And now a Dallas Public Broadcasting System station has succumbed to local Muslim protests by postponing a broadcast of ”The Roots of War: The Road to Peace,” a documentary on the origins of Islamic terrorism. The protesters claim the program has many errors; the producers disagree and aside from a disclaimer, will not change it. Will other PBS stations follow the Dallas lead? Is this the start of a troubling trend? Remember, “Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.”

I can add that CNN has also "chosen to not show the cartoons in respect for Islam".
Again we see this obvious difference being made between offending a radical muslim and the average news reader. Clearly the CNN is offending all its other readers by not showing them what's causing this row and assuming that they are unable to react calmly to cartoons.

Other pieces of tidbit (and I've stopped finding english sources now): The editor of the Jordanian paper has been fired, and the paper was recalled. The Jordanian government has started an investigation into the matter, and the owners of the paper has begun investigating if others at the paper could be blamed.
In New Zealand, a couple of papers have stated that they are going to run the cartoons. Purely as a show of solidarity and defense of freedom of speech.
Finally, a really well-written blog on the issue by a guy living in Cairo. He's a self-described extremely cynical, snarky, pro-US, secular, libertarian, disgruntled sandmonkey, but still manages to write from a somewhat non-western perspective I think:

quote:

Even though the Danes have apologized repeatedly for offending muslims by having a cartoon of the Prophet, the muslim world seems to be enjoying its "newfound power" and relishing in its "victory" in appearing retarded and is refusing to end the boycott against danish products. People at the comment section in the Arabiya story have not only vowed to never stop boycotting Denmark, but called for boycotting Norway and any other european country that may follow suit (A newspaper in France, feeling the need to have Paris torched again, just reprinted them cartoons) . But so far it has only been the Danes and their products that have taken the brunt of muslim anger worldwide. Fully knowing that it is retarded to punish a whole country and its products for what a Newspaper in that country did, I expected someone to start a movement to restore common sense our muslim brothers and demand a stop to the boycott, especially since the Danes have apologized over and over again. Then I figured, shit, why don't I be that someone? It is kind of expected from me anyway. Not to mention, it will piss off all the right people and I am all for that. So I guess I will start the official local campaign to boycott the boycott, and thanks to the efforts of Roba and Jameed, the campaign now has banners that you can get here, put on your website and show solidarity with Danish people, and your love for Danish cows, who have never hurt anyone- unlike their crazy british counterparts.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Isn't getting all worked up and making minimal to no effort to understand why the other party is upset incredibly rational and praise worthy behaviour from a "civilized" people? I'm kind of pissed at Muslims and the West for making such a big deal out of something so incredibly stupid and trivial. Divide and conquer. *shakes head*

I disagree fundamentally with your views of this situation as being symmetric. However, I do realize that that difference can be caused by differences in fundamental values. I, for instance, consider the fact that Arabs are trying to impose their value system on a foreign society as much worse than any kind of offense (and actually think that trying to impose your values on someone is an offense in itself).
I do not have any problems with understanding
(i) radical muslims feel offended, and
(ii) that the religion for a great many of them is their entire existence.
However, there's precious little I can do about it - considering that they wouldn't themselves want to compromise on (ii), and by preventing (i) I would go against something that is crucial to me. So, yes, I understand fully. There's just nothing I can do. The same goes for the papers that "keeps provoking":
The fact of the matter is that Jyllands-posten (and Denmark) was left standing as the only defenders of freedom of speech for a loooong time. There was an effort to explain the Danish model of secularism to Arabs, there were appeals through official channels to the EU and the UN, but nothing helped. In the end it was not until the foreign media decided to take matters into their own hands, and hence forcing their governments into action, that something resembling a unified defense of freedom of speech was established. Hence, they cannot and should not back down on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I applaud trancaholic and St_Andrew in their passion about this, it is for them, more than just cartoons (just as I imagine it is for the muslims as well... just I can't palce it).

Who would ever have though that you and I could be on the same side? But then again, we both disliked TheNobleEU...

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I think most of us (me certianly) have all at somepoint and time (and many still) been entranced by the words of Bill and his aura... For me like you, it was many years back (2001) but for others it is recent.

Do tell.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I'm going to go run to the store to buy some Danish cheese (trancaholic any recommendaitons?)

Well, I usually buy "Go' & Billig" ("Nice & Cheap"), but I think it will he hard to get in the US.

All of this just tells me that these muslims are bunch of fucking lil kids.. the world would be so much better without these feeble minded people living... for fucks sake, rioting over a fucking cartoon?!?!?!?! GROW THE FUCK UP!!! U LIVE IN A MODERN WORLD AND YOU EXPECT EVERY ONE ELSE TO GIVE YOU RESPECT WHEN YOU ARE NOT EVEN ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE REST OF THE WORLD??? LIKE explaining the rotation of the earth to a 3 years old.....
GO TO HELL ALL YOU RELIGIOUS NUT BAGS!!! YOU ARE THE REASON WHY YOU AND YOUR PEOPLE ARE SO FUCKING IGNORANT!!
jesus fucking christ in a taxi cab!!! Just goes to show at what level these people live at, what fucking idiots and morans.

Fuck understanding the so called "real" reson why these ignorant savages are getting upset. Why should I go down to the level of of someone that still thinks that Allah is all that and a bag of chips?? I am so tired of hearing about the god shit, GOD is DEAD, ALLAH is DEAD. Its almost like still believing in Zeus and all of the gods back from Greek and Roman times...... THEY ARE ALL MYTHS!!!!

If these muslims would pull there head out of thier asses and relize that they have been lied to for all these years, then they could become such a great people. Thats why the west came out of the dark ages, its called EDUCATION, and apparently the muslims that are so pissed off about this rather put thier faith in some MYTH than thier own people.

If I was of arab decent I would be so fucking mad at these stupid fucking dumpster ****s that are making my people look really stupid!!!

If I offended anyone than all I can say is that I am sorry that you are still blind to the truth. THERE IS NOT A GOD, ALLAH OR ANY OTHER HIGHER DIETY OUT THERE. SO DO MANKIND A FAVOR AND STOP WASTING OUR O2 and FOAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and before any of you terrorist symps start in on me check out what I think is the best picture I have ever seen in an american new paper..


I have yet to hear of any riots, threats or any other civil unrest here.... just goes to show you that these muslims are not the only religion getting "bad press" in the world...

Last edited by LazFX on Feb-03-2006 at 11:25

it's made the news here too now, not a bite late Apparently the danish consulate in indonesia has been attacked with eggs too

wtf, this small incident became a major headline now.

What you say it 'Making a house out of mole' or something.



And as to the incident, since when is publishing naked pictures of Jesus masturbating is freedom of speech?

Can anyone post a link where I can see what these cartoons were?

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Last edited by Purple on Feb-03-2006 at 12:55

Maybe the christians should riot and make threats since Kanye West is pictured as christ on the cover of rolling stone!!!!!!