quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J *Bangs head* Like I said. Strange World and Xpander are equally commercially viable. Yet one sold, the other didn't. Why?

cause XPander is a superior track over Strange World..

i also would like to pick up on the fact that MIKE has sold over 2 Million units worldwide

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http://soundcloud.com/subtara

Xpander isn't any less of a genre-classic as Strange World for that matter. So why do you still keep on using that same Xpander as example to prove your point that Strange World is only a genre-classic and therefore a lesser track?

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I used Xpander at random out of the tracks I named, because it bore similaties in era and style to MIKE.

Difference is that the entire dance community recognises Xpander as a classic, but not Strange World. This can be reflected in global sales of an undoubtedly non-commercial track.

Dark Apostle: I wish there were some source of world-wide sales that I could quote. I used the UK because it's an easy one for me to find out about (I have a big weighty document on all UK Top 75 Singles and Top 100 Albums since 1952) and also because in 1998-2001 it had the biggest trance audience, and certainly the biggest amount of trance fans who bought records, and regularly put trance in the Top 20, Top 10 and even Top 5.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

shit

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J

ofcourse XPander is a more popular track in UK, Sasha was born in UK, he was a well known DJ during the release, the track was featured on his Global Underground compilation.. gained even more popularity with the big jocks..

MIKE is known as a producer not a DJ, whereas Sasha is a world recognised DJ and Producer..

i dont see the reason for the comparance, Sasha is in the "progressive" community.. while MIKE was only a producer making "trance" records..

i mearly dont see the validity of using record sales as an argument for whats classics and what isnt..

for a pure "TRANCE" fan, like me.. tracks like Universal Nation, Time Never Stopps, Till We Meet Again, are considered classics, during the appearance in the late 90s and the trancemaster compilations, which brought me, and alot of people into trance..

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http://soundcloud.com/subtara

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J There's no one MIKE track that has recognition across the spectrum.

Here's where it all began. Every single Belgian and scores of outlanders had Universal Nation (amongst others) jump up before their eyes. In big fat letters.
And now you're fighting off the Belgian Fury (amongst others)
Good luck with it



Obviously you should stand corrected imo

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Difference is that the entire dance community recognises Xpander as a classic, but not Strange World. This can be reflected in global sales of an undoubtedly non-commercial track.

That's quite an assumption you make there. How do you know what the global dance community thinks and recognises?
Sales only do not prove at all that a track is recognised as a classic by the entire dance community. Because who can tell you who bought all those Xpander EP's? That the sales were so high doesn't necessariy mean that the track made a crossover and also got purchased by non-trance or non-progressive listeners. I'm pretty sure that only few hardcore listeners or drum 'n bass listeners consider Xpander as a classic, and I'm pretty sure as well that they couldn't even tell the difference between both songs if they got to hear them. That is, if they have even ever heard them before anyway. There are of course exceptions that know their way in all different sorts of genres and styles and therefore know most classics of most genres, but I'm talking about the Average Listener here.
True all-genre-spanning classics are just extremely scarce, and Xpander isn't one of those either. And IMO it's still enough for a track that it's a genre-classic to be considered a classic...

And by saying this, I don't want to touch Xpander's status of a classic at all. I love the track to death, and I surely consider it one of the milestones in EDM even. But I still stick to my empirically based opinion that Strange World (for example) is as much or as little a classic as Xpander (for example).

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quote:

Originally posted by Subtle for a pure "TRANCE" fan, like me.. tracks like Universal Nation, Time Never Stopps, Till We Meet Again, are considered classics, during the appearance in the late 90s and the trancemaster compilations, which brought me, and alot of people into trance..

I can't remember why we got onto sales, but my point has been that "classic" is a word thrown around far too much. Every seven year old trance record is a classic these days.

Someone said MIKE was a king of trance. He justified this by saying MIKE had put out lots of classic trance records. My point has been that his "classics" are only classics to trance fans; they aren't recognised classics. I don't think MIKE has done enough to be a "king of trance" in the same way that BT or Jam & Spoon or Hardfloor could be.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by Jasperovitsj That's quite an assumption you make there. How do you know what the global dance community thinks and recognises? Sales only do not prove at all that a track is recognised as a classic by the entire dance community. Because who can tell you who bought all those Xpander EP's? That the sales were so high doesn't necessariy mean that the track made a crossover and also got purchased by non-trance or non-progressive listeners. I'm pretty sure that only few hardcore listeners or drum 'n bass listeners consider Xpander as a classic, and I'm pretty sure as well that they couldn't even tell the difference between both songs if they got to hear them.

I don't expect this to prove anything, but here's a capsule review of Xpander by a music journalist that sort of answers your question from the mouth of someone paid to write about this:

quote:

"If you can get a record played by a breakbeat DJ, a house DJ and a trance DJ," said Sasha of the runaway clubland success of "Xpander", "you know you're making a record that's hitting the nail on the head." It was after hearing "Xpander" that the Chemical Brothers enlisted Sasha to remix their "Out Of Control" and, indeed, if there's a record that sums up better the serious prospects of trance--so often considered a joke genre--it's yet to be made. Xpander is fifty minutes of beautiful sobreity, a world away from the hackneyed euro-cheese that gives the genre a bad name, and while the title track offers some austere, choppy dancefloor thrills, it's the later excursions that take the EP back into the murkier realms of hard house on "Belfunk" and dark, psychedelic tech-trance on "Baja". Hardly surprising that Xpander was caned by DJs of every persuasion--here, Sasha has all bases covered comfortably. Essential.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I can't remember why we got onto sales, but my point has been that "classic" is a word thrown around far too much. Every seven year old trance record is a classic these days. Someone said MIKE was a king of trance. He justified this by saying MIKE had put out lots of classic trance records. My point has been that his "classics" are only classics to trance fans; they aren't recognised classics. I don't think MIKE has done enough to be a "king of trance" in the same way that BT or Jam & Spoon or Hardfloor could be.

MIKE is the king of trance , not cause he made the uberOMG classic, but cause he continues to make quality tunes years by years, and never fails BT has made alot of great stuff during the years and stuff that definitely can be given the "classic" status.. but does a BT fan have as many great tunes to listen to as a MIKE fan has? doubtfully..

BT is mostly recognized for his huge and inventive tunes.. which is ofcourse, more memorial than the standard MIKE tune.

MIKE is king of trance cause he has simply released, so god damn many great tunes during the time..

wheareas, Sasha is described as the father of progressive house.. and operates on a different arena, so has BT..

the progressive arena has always been more popular than the "trance" arena..

___________________


http://soundcloud.com/subtara

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J My point has been that his "classics" are only classics to trance fans; they aren't recognised classics.

My point is that I don't get who should recognise the tracks as classics then for you to accept them as classics? You're talking about vague conceptions as "the entire dance community", but I've already given you the example of Red 1. The fact that trancefans or ambientfans don't consider it as a classic, doesn't make it any less of a classic for the technofans.
Or are there some general objective criteria that a track should posses or acquire so it automatically becomes a "classic" in the way you use the term? Cause I'm a bit lost as to understand what makes a classic track in your book, and what not. And I don't understand why you persist in the fact that a genre-classic can't be considered a genuine classic, but yet you're using all kinds of genre-classics as examples to prove that point. Or do you really believe that schranzfans also consider BT as a true king?

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Dark Apostle: I wish there were some source of world-wide sales that I could quote. I used the UK because it's an easy one for me to find out about (I have a big weighty document on all UK Top 75 Singles and Top 100 Albums since 1952) and also because in 1998-2001 it had the biggest trance audience, and certainly the biggest amount of trance fans who bought records, and regularly put trance in the Top 20, Top 10 and even Top 5.

yes, but that gives not a completely correct representation. Belgian charts don't even bother to chart something unless it has a single with a radio edit on it and other than Germany and the UK (maybe The Netherlands aswell) no other country i know of bothers to chart anything but financial backed pop-starlets. Yes you have Dance Charts, but generaly they are biased and usually based on half arsed voting systems.

And calling MIKE the king of trance goes well over the top, as far as i'm concerned no-one to this day can claim that title, maybe DJ Jean, but he would crown himself.


To me a classic is defined by whether or not it still can move people years after it's original release. Universal Nation can still do that (as does Age Of Love, Café Del Mar, etc). And UN isn't a very complex track but AoL (and the clip was so ghey) and Café Del Mar weren't either, so that doesn't make a difference.

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