oh yeah and about calling everyone an idiot.. i was merely expressing a defense for electro style since she can't speak for herself

blame fischerspooner for the electro-pap

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agenda:


[Dark Disco|Frozen Balearic|Gay Biker-House| Boogie-Trance|Heavy Electronica|Soft-Goth]

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if you take for example that jupitor one track remove the synth stabs and cowbell you would have a basic breakbeat track.

Jupitor One? You mean Dynamik Bass System? If you take out the synth stabs, the high pitched Freestyle synth stabs, and the cowbel you'd still have an electro track. There's still vocals, claps, bassline, percussion, and glitchy zaps!

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even look at artists like rex the dog its clear that they have used electro influence, italo disco, 80s synthpop breakbeat etc into their compositions.

Maybe so.

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you cannot simply define and isolate a genre like electro, the word electro comes from electronic, meaning sounds that are not made by real instruments. alot of underground electro was probably created with samplers trying to use a simple method of construction. alot of spacing between the elements of the track. What then happend was that other genres used this style and complicated things, more congestion, driving basslines (italo disco), stuttering effects (information society), vocal collaborations (stevie b), and so forth.

If you couldn't define and isolate a genre, then it wouldn't be a genre, would it?

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a driving bassline can exist in electro. not to mention the cowbell

I know they can.

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.. and again listen to planet rock the bassline is very similar to that jupitor one track

Alright forget about Planet Rock. She does have a bassline. But not a very strong one. Just focus on This which was released in 1982 as well. No bassline no stabs no cowbell still electro.

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Addy fo SHADDY ! hiccup, KA pladdy.

Last edited by Aiwendil on Nov-28-2005 at 02:29

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Originally posted by Aiwendil If you couldn't define and isolate a genre, then it wouldn't be a genre, would it?

i would compare this to calling progressive a genre

it just doesnt work..

for instance you can say that.. club trance in relation to eurodance is progressive.

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Alright forget about Planet Rock. She does have a bassline. But not a very strong one. Just focus on This which was released in 1982 as well. No bassline no stabs no cowbell still electro.

ok now think to yourself.. why would you call htis song electro

perhaps because of the bell/chime like instruments going through the song very simple no delay just slight conjestion and variations. The bare minimal here i would doubt this is even a track its more like a loop or an uncomplete work.

If this is what your definition of electro is ill give you a standard 4 X 4 beat, add a clap and hi hat and tell you that thats house.

and thus using that as your guideline for defining electro you could probably catagorize any electronica under this due to its basic nature.

my overal point is that with specification you use genres to describe a track.

"The cowbells from ingrosso's euro along with the driving like bassline that kraftwerk demonstarted in radioactivity 1977, give it a nice feel of electro"

or lets use another genre for instance progressive.

dj nukem vs chab - shaiva. "This track gives the presence of a progressive feel when layers are slowly added throughout the track to give the song more depth. "

I might be a bit drastic in my analogies and conclusion about genres.. its just that these sdays artists are not conforming to one simple outline and are instead incorporating so much. Its up to the listener to decide what would be considered what according to the history of electronic music and using examples from the past to show what they mean.

Last edited by Nrg2Nfinit on Nov-28-2005 at 07:53

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit i would compare this to calling progressive a genre it just doesnt work.. for instance you can say that.. club trance in relation to eurodance is progressive.

Except that Electro is a term that was amended from the longer "electronic-funk" in the early 80's to describe this music that was a combination of Kraftwerk robotics with African American Rhythms. As usual, Kraftwerk saw ahead to the future, but "electro" didn't catch on as early as that. The term electro-funk came from releases like this and this. By 1983 it had been shortened to Electro with the very first Electro compilation. All the music on these releases is Electro or Electro-Funk or Electro-Hop/Electro-Rap. The point being that Electro has a real history as a genre of its own.

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ok now think to yourself.. why would you call htis song electro

The funky breakbeat/drum programming lifted directly from Kraftwerk/Bambaataa, and the beepy beepy beep. The offbeat percussion. It's a perfect "pop and lock" robot electro track, as you put it.

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The bare minimal here i would doubt this is even a track its more like a loop or an uncomplete work.

It's a track. I doubt he would have released it if it was incomplete. It's probably as bare-bones as electro gets, true.

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Addy fo SHADDY ! hiccup, KA pladdy.

I am so over this whole "electro house" genre beng the current big ground breaking syle at the moment.

I have never liked it the first place and I can't wait for it to be a passing fad. Face it, come 2006 and ppl will just reminisce and say "
geez, electro house is soooo 2005 "

I think all these Dj's like Desyn, Sander and Nic Fanciulli have stolen the prog scene. Looks like it's now harder to find decent prog tunes being played cos everyone into this cheesy electro house rubbish.

This electro crap is the reason why some cd's from the once quality prog cd series like Reniassance and Balance have now gone to shit...

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Originally posted by Clovis86 I like what I like...and if its cheese then whatever.

yep,agree-same goes

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Originally posted by Aiwendil Except that Electro is a term that was amended from the longer "electronic-funk" in the early 80's to describe this music that was a combination of Kraftwerk robotics with African American Rhythms. As usual, Kraftwerk saw ahead to the future, but "electro" didn't catch on as early as that. The term electro-funk came from releases like this and this. By 1983 it had been shortened to Electro with the very first Electro compilation. All the music on these releases is Electro or Electro-Funk or Electro-Hop/Electro-Rap. The point being that Electro has a real history as a genre of its own.

First compilation called electro? Perhaps i wont argue that point. First electro production? yes for sure i definatley disagree. just because the artists name is calle Elektrik?

Listen to giorgio moroder - E=mc2 (1979) besides the standard 4X4 beat.. that song sounds very electro to me and the percussion is way more complex then that non bassline track you posted earlier from 1982. Not to mention alot of kraftwerks stuff. If a genre was clearly based on those productions then you cannot define the genre from after the basis. but you'll have to look further back and think "now why did these artist call it electro?" so in conclusion electro dates farther back then 1982.

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The funky breakbeat/drum programming lifted directly from Kraftwerk/Bambaataa, and the beepy beepy beep. The offbeat percussion. It's a perfect "pop and lock" robot electro track, as you put it.

its not funky its just a breakbeat with bell samples lol

do you have hte discogs release for that track?
intresting concept but when you compare this to the works of moroder and arthur baker its stance for being a genre definer is very weak.

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit First compilation called electro? Perhaps i wont argue that point. First electro production? yes for sure i definatley disagree. just because the artists name is calle Elektrik?

No, not first electro production. First production that gave electro its name. That's not the same. Before that, they didn't call it electro.

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Listen to giorgio moroder - E=mc2 (1979) besides the standard 4X4 beat.. that song sounds very electro to me and the percussion is way more complex then that non bassline track you posted earlier from 1982. Not to mention alot of kraftwerks stuff. If a genre was clearly based on those productions then you cannot define the genre from after the basis.

I never meant to use the track as a definition anyway. My point was that it's electro.

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but you'll have to look further back and think "now why did these artist call it electro?" so in conclusion electro dates farther back then 1982.

I know that.

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its not funky its just a breakbeat with bell samples lol do you have hte discogs release for that track? intresting concept but when you compare this to the works of moroder and arthur baker its stance for being a genre definer is very weak.

I'm pretty sure I can tell when I hear funky drum programming. You mean do I have the track or do I have the link on discogs? This is the link to discogs, it's B2 I believe. Possibly A3, but I doubt it. Like I said, I never meant to use it as a genre definer.

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Addy fo SHADDY ! hiccup, KA pladdy.

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Originally posted by Stanza I am so over this whole "electro house" genre beng the current big ground breaking syle at the moment. I have never liked it the first place and I can't wait for it to be a passing fad. Face it, come 2006 and ppl will just reminisce and say " geez, electro house is soooo 2005 " I think all these Dj's like Desyn, Sander and Nic Fanciulli have stolen the prog scene. Looks like it's now harder to find decent prog tunes being played cos everyone into this cheesy electro house rubbish. This electro crap is the reason why some cd's from the once quality prog cd series like Reniassance and Balance have now gone to shit...

The current scene is better now than its ever been. So many great records out there with fresh new artist's pushing the envelope. Luke Dzierzek - Echo for instance, or Speedcats (Roel H Mix). Its time to move on and let the scene progress.

Hey guys do you mean planet rock THAT africa Bambaata track???Isn't that originally from trans-europe express album by kraftwerk???

Aiwendil i think you are taking the term to seriously..."electro" in it's own is a very ill-defined term for the reason that there are no clear characteristics that define it and my opinion it was used by the press in order to describe a broader amount of releases... from the electronic funk/hip-hop of africa bambaata to synth-pop of OMD, Propaganda, Japan, Soft-cell etc.. to Alexander Robotnick's electronic disco style (italo-disco) to Electronic Body Music by Cabaret Voltaire and Front-242...i don't think that anyone used the term electro to describe specifically a particular genre...in a way is like many other genres like 70s prog-rock or 80s new-wave...for example...yes pink floyd, king crimson, genesis, ELP, Can,Magma, Camel, Caravan, Gentle Giant were all broadly defined as prog-rock bands...but what are the sounds of a prog-rock band...there are absolutely NO specific sounds or instruments used specifically by Prog-rock bands...there are only WAYS of using these instruments no matter what these instruments are...yes there are some specific sound-textures that are characteristic of 70s prog-rock but this is quite broad and general to use it as a clue and make a strong definition for a prog-rock band...e.g...

Pink-Floyd- A slow in most of the times and spacey bluesy sound with psychedelic elements

King Crimson-more epic than pink floyd and much more virtuose...used heavy jazz, classical and ethnic elements

Can-very minimal, dark and weird type of music...(kraftwerk were influenced)

The same goes to 80s new-wave...new-wave are the dark joy division, the more synth-influenced simple-minds, U2(!!!)the mysterious dead can dance and 4AD co.(with hevy medieval influences in their music), the cure and probably synth-pop acts like depeche mode...now...where does the new-wave starts and where does it ends and than where does the synth-pop starts??? There were so many genres made-up by the press...for example... While Joy division and sisters of mercy where parts of the new-wave movement they were also given the term "dark-wave" or "gothic-rock"...given a new name by the press is good for you (the artist)...it makes you different...it makes you stand-out from the rest of "genre"...and it does so even if your music is slighhhttlyy deviated from the broader genre more in terms of sounding-textures rather than the overall way of playing...which is broadly stays the same and broadly defines a genre...

now...what i mean by ways of playing...for exaple what made prog-rock bands progressive (and not just rock) where the long-time of their tunes the "epic" delivery of the tunes with lows alternating with ups(crescendos) and a lot of external rock influences from quite different types of genres such as ethnic, classical, jazz, fusion, blues and yes electronic-ambient which started to make an appearance with the legendary moog...also an "arty" perception of rock music rather than just fame and drugs...

Now 80s new-wave is clearly quite different from 70s prog-rock...now where is the difference???there are different sounding textures as a result of instruments and studio-trickery/technology used as well as in deliverance-way-of-plying the music...so EVERYTHING was different. 80s new-wave bands sound was much simpler and minimal with short simple tunes with clear catchy lead-lines and more "electronic" as a result of the heavy usage of synths as means of a cheaper production.

Therefore, as i said before...to try and define "electro" by means of specific-sounds and instruments is useless...due to...

1)"electro" in itself is a broader genre(or dare i say movement?) that defines many sub-genres such as e-funk, synth-pop,EDM, italo

2)sound-textures and deliverance were very similar(dare i say identical in some cases) between these intra-genre sub-genres and of course they got broader between defferent genres(inter-genre comparisons electro to new-wave to rap to punk-rock to metal)Of-course these intra-genres-inter-genre comparisons are an illusion...there are no specefic broad genres there is only a continuous stream of small sub-genres that their sound deviates between them...at one point(probably a ground-breaking and visionary artist which re-interprets and re-defines the sound is producing or was just assigned to by the press) it will be so different that the press(or the artist) can make an the "agreement" and create a new genre .In reality the sound deviates from artist to artist.

3)these sound-textures and deliverance canno't be deduced down to specific sounds such as cowbells, synth-hits and hand-claps because the probability for a specific sound to be used by many artists is very small-especially is such specific (broader) genres as electro in which the number of the artists is limited...yes some sounds are cool and can be used and stollen by another artist...but to try to find the pure stripped-down electro sound is an illusion because such a thing does not exist!!!electro was first coined probably for kraftwerk...maybe giorgio moroder or even jarre...all of these artists belonged to a differnt genre!(kraftwerk were german kraut-rockers, giorgio was a disco conossieur and jarre hmmmm some kind of ambient or electronical...or cosmic music as they called it back then).

Electro(and probably any other genre be it, jazz, metal, folk-lore,rock whatever)canno't therefore by deduced down to cow-bells and synth-hits... it can only be recognised by the broader sound-textures and deliverance such as " dry electronically sounding sequenced patterns, machine-sounding samples and effects, simple note-patterns such as containing simple lead-melodies and maybe danceable rhythms..."in many cases it has a futuristic attitude".

NOW I WAN'T THIS ESSAY TO GET A RELEASE IN NEW-SCIENTIST OR SCIENCE OR NATURE!!!!! I Propose some good theories there...