quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 I understand this. The definition of "classic trance" is the old stuff, pre 96. However, alot of us who got into trance around 98 think of that stuff as "classics" because we were too young to get into the stuff prior to 96, I don't know that many 10 or 11 year olds that were or are into that stuff, I surely wasn't one of them. So the exact definition is the pre 96 stuff, i'll agree with that in that respect. When you talk about the pre 96 stuff not having a build up, well that's fine for the stuff back then, but again this was not what most people who got into the sound when we could, around 98 and 99, were used to or have come to love. I've heard some of the older trance stuff, and it sounded to me like techno, and the psy stuff. I, and others on here, got into trance because we did not like that overly repetitive or hypnotic sound. One of the reasons I got into trance vs. techno was I prefered the structure, the melody and the energy of trance. I liked the build ups, the tension, the emotion. This is what made the genre popular, whether we like it or we don't. I'll admit, I don't know that many psy stuff. If you can point me to some psy sets where I can hear some tunes that aren't just the squelching acidic noises and heavy booming basslines, then i might like it. The stuff i've heard though, just doesn't appeal to me as far as being emotive. I guess I prefer stuff that sounds emotional. I like some more subtle progressive stuff, but as far as epic, melodic trance, I like to feel it. Other people do as well. It's the beautiful and euphoric qualities that we like in our epic, it's the feeling of transcedence expemplified by images and emotions the music presents to you. You don't have to like it though. Psy and classic trance are fine, and they have their own sounds, and psy I know has their own scene, which you a part of. However, some people just enjoy the epic stuff, and the psy or classic stuff might not appeal to them. Well maybe psy's energy, but again, it would be nice to hear a psy set that has tunes with the same emotions and melody in some of the best epic trance tunes over the years (and no i'm not talking about cheesy vocal "trance"). It's good to expose people to new stuff, i'm all for that, but also keep in mind that some of this stuff might not be what they are looking for, AND keep in mind that just as there are good psy and bad psy, there are good and bad epic stuff too. I don't know why some people right all epic stuff as crap just because it follows a particular formula..has a build up/breakdown/build up. This is the same in many genres of music. But again, point me to some good psy sets with melody and emotion, and not just booming basslines and squelching acid noises and tripped out effects...I'm not saying psy sucks from this though, just that I can't stand those repetitive sounds, and stuff that just builds and builds and builds and doesn't go anywhere (one of the reasons again why I have liked epic trance over the years vs. psy or techno or stuff like that). I know I am ignorant, I just need to be introduced to stuff other than epic trance that shares the same stuff, the only other one i've found that really does is more melodic and spacey progressive, ambient/downtempo and house (particularly deep house). I am starting to check out some more melodic and emotive techno as well...so i'm trying to get rid of my igorance and be exposed to new stuff. So I admit my biases and faults...which more people should do on here. Once this stuff all clears up, i'm sure i'll have more of an appreciation for the stuff you guys like, and i'm not saying it all has to be uplifting, fluffy stuff, just stuff with melody and emotion. Thats what I am about, and other people on here as well it seems...

So, essentially, you agree with me, but you need to take up a lot of space to make it look like you don't?

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www.jexmusic.com - My website

Underworld - Rez is a good example of a repetitive tune which is also emotional, I couldn't get any of my friends into that stuff though, they said it was too repetitive.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 I understand this. The definition of "classic trance" is the old stuff, pre 96. However, alot of us who got into trance around 98 think of that stuff as "classics" because we were too young to get into the stuff prior to 96, I don't know that many 10 or 11 year olds that were or are into that stuff, I surely wasn't one of them. So the exact definition is the pre 96 stuff, i'll agree with that in that respect. When you talk about the pre 96 stuff not having a build up, well that's fine for the stuff back then, but again this was not what most people who got into the sound when we could, around 98 and 99, were used to or have come to love. I've heard some of the older trance stuff, and it sounded to me like techno, and the psy stuff. I, and others on here, got into trance because we did not like that overly repetitive or hypnotic sound. One of the reasons I got into trance vs. techno was I prefered the structure, the melody and the energy of trance. I liked the build ups, the tension, the emotion. This is what made the genre popular, whether we like it or we don't.

Then don't call it trance, because the stuff you like isn't actually trance.

Call it what it really is:

Clown cheese.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Anyone care to respond to Ishkur?

ie, does anyone feel like bashing their head against a brick wall?

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Then don't call it trance, because the stuff you like isn't actually trance. Call it what it really is: Clown cheese.

I had no idea you could milk clowns.

I thought I'd chime in here just for fun, if only to give an example of someone who has no idea what "classic trance" or "energetic" trance is.

In terms of energetic trance, is it how big of a kick there is? How fast the song is? how "driving" the bass is?

For example, someone mentioned "The Quest - C Sharp"; This would not be a song that would fit in with the PVD @ Energy 2003 mix, which I agree with the original poster was a great mix. I got back into trance from a foray into house becasue of mixes like energy 2003, PVD @ Einslive Einheitsrave 2003, and even his Nature One 2004 set. Hard driving, high BPM trance sets. These type of songs still come out today, but are mixed in with what is clearly a shift in trance to a slower, more progressive style.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 I'll let someone else respond to this. I don't feel like going on a rant about it. Anyone care to respond to Ishkur? anyone who got into trance when they actually could (98, 99). Again I wasn't an 8, 9 and 10 year old listening to the early stuff to really get an appreciation for it. What 8, 9 and 10 year old listens to this kind of music anyways?? Haha.

I'll respond to every post you've ever made. Try to stop making arguments based on your subjective feelings about music.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 To me, trance isn't about literal hypnotic trance states, I think we take the term "trance" too literally sometimes.

And that is why you fail

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quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 I'll let someone else respond to this. I don't feel like going on a rant about it. Anyone care to respond to Ishkur? anyone who got into trance when they actually could (98, 99). Again I wasn't an 8, 9 and 10 year old listening to the early stuff to really get an appreciation for it. What 8, 9 and 10 year old listens to this kind of music anyways?? Haha.

Why do you keep making this argument? It's like people aren't allowed to like certain music unless they come "of age". And what, pray tell, is the minimum age limit for listening to trance? Your ears can't hear it before then?

Does all past music completely unexist to you? You never listen to Pink Floyd or the Beatles? When you get into a certain music, do you not do some research and background checks to find more of it, and familiarize yourself with its history, its development, its styles and aesthetics? Do you not go out and actually look for good music yourself? Or do you just sit at home like a useless lump of flesh waiting for Armin's set of the week or Mixmag to come down the pipe and spoonfeed you what they want your favourite trance to be? Pulp pop sludge for your soulless mass consumption.

Look: It doesn't matter when you got into the music. I didn't start listening to trance until about 97-98 either. And it became readily apparent what was happening, in accordance with the rising popularity of trance.

Older trance was real, raw, arresting, and experimentative, with limitless power and persuasion in it. It had feeling, humanity, and emotion. It was trance in its essence: Undeterred by bullshit, uncorrupted by frivolous gimmicks, and unswayed by money and pop uniformity.

But it was slowly being overwritten with a new kind of shiny, plastic fake trance. Bright and crisp. Like a predictable Hollywood blockbuster. Armed with relentless PR and marketing of big DJs, big stadiums, big anthemic sing-a-long trance. It was big, cheap, canned, fake, shiny plastic bright candy-coated happy clown trance. Not even trance anymore. A bastardization of trance.

But the thing is: People (ie: you) are fucking stupid. They can't enjoy something bizarre and crude. They don't like reality. They are easily distracted by pretty melodies and shiny things, like raccoons oggling over jangling keys. They don't understand the unresolved, infinite beat, the suspended state of momentum, the TAZ, or even the concept of intellectualizing these abstract things.

They want the insta-gratification. They want the euphoria without having to work for it. They want to win the lottery. They don't want their food to taste bitter. And the new safe, boring world of album-oriented marketing and predictable formulaic MTV trance gave it to them. Their own private little fantasy comfort zone.

And thus: Trance became very popular with you, the masses, the stupid majority, the lowest common denominator of society. Trance reformed itself into pop music so that you could like it, not the other way around. You did not grow as a person to go it. It came to you. It opened your mouth with a vice and poured its cheesy, glowing tripe down your gullet, and with a bloated belly you screamed for more.

Now, don't get me wrong: I'm not telling you what to like. I just want you to own up to what you're liking. You like crap.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Why do you keep making this argument? It's like people aren't allowed to like certain music unless they come "of age". And what, pray tell, is the minimum age limit for listening to trance? Your ears can't hear it before then? Does all past music completely unexist to you? You never listen to Pink Floyd or the Beatles? When you get into a certain music, do you not do some research and background checks to find more of it, and familiarize yourself with its history, its development, its styles and aesthetics? Do you not go out and actually look for good music yourself? Or do you just sit at home like a useless lump of flesh waiting for Armin's set of the week or Mixmag to come down the pipe and spoonfeed you what they want your favourite trance to be? Pulp pop sludge for your soulless mass consumption. Look: It doesn't matter when you got into the music. I didn't start listening to trance until about 97-98 either. And it became readily apparent what was happening, in accordance with the rising popularity of trance. Older trance was real, raw, arresting, and experimentative, with limitless power and persuasion in it. It had feeling, humanity, and emotion. It was trance in its essence: Undeterred by bullshit, uncorrupted by frivolous gimmicks, and unswayed by money and pop uniformity. But it was slowly being overwritten with a new kind of shiny, plastic fake trance. Bright and crisp. Like a predictable Hollywood blockbuster. Armed with relentless PR and marketing of big DJs, big stadiums, big anthemic sing-a-long trance. It was big, cheap, canned, fake, shiny plastic bright candy-coated happy clown trance. Not even trance anymore. A bastardization of trance. But the thing is: People (ie: you) are fucking stupid. They can't enjoy something bizarre and crude. They don't like reality. They are easily distracted by pretty melodies and shiny things, like raccoons oggling over jangling keys. They don't understand the unresolved, infinite beat, the suspended state of momentum, the TAZ, or even the concept of intellectualizing these abstract things. They want the insta-gratification. They want the euphoria without having to work for it. They want to win the lottery. They don't want their food to taste bitter. And the new safe, boring world of album-oriented marketing and predictable formulaic MTV trance gave it to them. Their own private little fantasy comfort zone. And thus: Trance became very popular with you, the masses, the stupid majority, the lowest common denominator of society. Trance reformed itself into pop music so that you could like it, not the other way around. You did not grow as a person to go it. It came to you. It opened your mouth with a vice and poured its cheesy, glowing tripe down your gullet, and with a bloated belly you screamed for more. Now, don't get me wrong: I'm not telling you what to like. I just want you to own up to what you're liking. You like crap.

maybe the best post in this issue i have ever read....

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 To me, trance isn't about literal hypnotic trance states, I think we take the term "trance" too literally sometimes.

You realize that you are contradicting yourself quite a bit with statements like this, especially since the majority of your posts unnecessarily repeat over and over about how trance is so emotional and hypnotically beautiful to you. That in itself is a prime example of how trance music is taken too literal and serious by some people, so I (and I'm sure many others) haven't any idea how to go about interpreting what you say, or really, what you actually mean on here anymore.

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"...the major problem in the past was to locate the settings of the ancient plastic city. referring to our latest findings plastic city wasn't a city built of stone or metal but more kind of built out of ideas.... (PLASTIC CITY) can't be found by our archaeologists. we will have to examine the ideas and then try to re-construct plastic city in out minds..." (EXCERPT FROM "SCIENTIST REPORT NETWORK" #12.587, YEAR 2495)