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Originally posted by Magnetonium Sometimes I wonder if movies like Matrix and Thirteenth Floor weere made to hint at these things, that our perception of the world around is tiny to what it actually is.

Matrix was a bunch of nonsense conjured up by two guys of which one had a sex change and is now living with a huge lesbian woman. The primary fault of the Matrix is that one nuclear power plant produces about as much electrical power as a million people. The second fault is that the robots could have just used cows instead and have spared themselves of the need to create a whole elaborate fake computer world.

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Look at the spectrum of light, for example. The visible spectrum of light, the result of which we see with our eyes, makes up only a tiny portion of the light spectrum. THATS A FACT. We dont see or feel the full picture. Our perceptions cannot sense nearly 99.9 percent of things happening around us at all times. Same with frequency, its liek a spectrum of light. If you change the frequency of sound, you hear different things. Radio has been perfected as a result of this amazing discovery, and ability to manage these different levels of sound have resulted in the radio. The frequency of sound is greater that even that! So is this more of "cosnpiracy" to all the deniers? These are facts, the facts about light spectrum and sound. Imagine what else cant we sense and see ...

Yes, you actually did make some sense here. Now try to keep following that path.

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anybody?

Wow. I really am speechless at this point besides a big 'ole...

OMFG!!!

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As for conspiracies that were mentioned on previous page, I agree with most of them..

That has to be the single most disturbing thing I've heard in quite some time.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Well, you are asking me for proof to my statements, while placing your own arguments with no considerable proof either. So we're even.

I love it! You don't have definitive proof that aliens built the pyramids using telekenetic powers, but I don't have proof that aliens didn't build the pyramids using telekentic powers, so you're right.

It's the age-old conspiracy/religion fallback: It's nearly impossible to prove things didn't exist or didn't. So instead of going with the most studied, scientific and plausable explaination for things, we always can find that little "doubt" or "wiggle room" where it might have actually been the great oompa-loompas that really had their hands in the matters.

I'll admit, it's a completely unwinable argument when you can always default back to "well, you can't proove that it didn't happen." "Maybe they were just really smart and coverd up all the evidence so we can never know the whole truth."

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Um..yeah. All lifeforms are made of water and a billion other chemical compounds. And guess what, those compounds have to be organized in a certain way, otherwise you just get a gelatinous goo. If by imprint you mean waste biochemicals swimming through water, yes. If you mean some magical-telepathy-alien-atlantis-pyramid-9/11 imprint, then no. Um, actually it's a release of endorphins in anticipation of improvement. You know you're gonna feel better and that makes you feel better. And it's not all that powerful, because otherwise we'd all be eating placebo pills. Oh, wait, maybe that's another government conspiracy? Maybe we all are being given placebo pills? Well..it can more or less. What else controls our movements/desires/feelings/etc? Through interaction, by a degree. Through telepathy..um, no. Argue what??? Buddhists are practicing telepathy? Atlanteans used telekinesis to build pyramids? UFO's fly by the power of thought? What would you need UFO's for then? You can fly without it!

I see what you're thinking. You only believe in things that have 100% proof behind in them. In cases where that is not the case, you stick to the main, often the government sponsored view.

Placebo effect - countless studies have shown that the body can heal itself after a placebo pill is given. In some controversial cases, I heard such things as cancer and tumours were cures in such a way. But even if that was true, such information would never see the light of day. Pharmaceutical companies with many billions of dollars in sales will be out of business in a day if such information were to be released (on how to cure any disease using your thoughts). I firmly believe all disease is self created. Pharmaceuticals dont give us placebos. They give us drugs at outrageous prices with sideeffects to suppress our symptoms so that we can buy more drugs to suppress the sude effects and then more drugs for those effects and so on. Thats a FACT. FACT: Drugs do not cure disease. Only the body can heal itself. I rest my case.

As for UFO's: why do I have to go in detail on the reason for existence of these crafts - I thought you might've figured my response by now - the craft is neccessary for the protection of the being from the elements, and from exposure to space and ultraviolet radiation, pollution and other things. The power of the thought probably cant control all these elements at once. The alien craft is wired in such a way as to respond to the aliens thought, as in many UFO books and stories it was said that their craft had no gears and such. But you probably dont believe this since there little proof if any out there, and the facts are classified by the governments.

I imagine you believe in only a few things, since its hard to find any subject that can be proven 100%, as most of them cannot be proved 100 percent - even the atomic theory itself. But I hope you already know that. So I am basically voicing my opinions, and trying to shed some light on things.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

A normal healthy person would never get sick. I am a vegan, for 7 months now. I have yet to get sick, tired, headaches or anything like that. I feel great and full of energy. I wish I found out the truth about poisons in our foods earlier.

If you think drugs can cure disease, then why dont we take prescriptions to fight ALL illnesses, as small as a flu? Body itself is a powerful mechanism that after billions of years developed an amazing immunity machine to fight illness. Why some really terrible diseases were born in the last 150 years? Because we have poisoned our food and let corporations and pharmaceuticals/government control our food industry. Nobody cares about your health or well being. Its time people see this and stop supporting these heinous schemes by not spending money to these industries. Even dollar you dont spend on them is less damage to the planet and other human beings.

I can talk about this forever, but I hope you can see my point, and finally agree on another of my points.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

As a summary, some of you still believe the government is COMPLETELY innocent of the 9/11 events, and other SIMILAR events they carried out against other people in other countries. So you can deny then.

But the fact is, that the government does not care about its people. This can be seen in poor state of health of people, recent rise of powerful diseases that were unknown only 100 years ago (Alzhemer's, AIDS, Lou Gerig's, SARS, etc.). So you will tell me its just a coincidence. Then you will deny that our environment is being poisoned. You will deny that 25% of our forests around the world has been cut in last 2000 years. You will deny huge drops in fish supplies around the world. You will deny the awful amounts of pollution that government sanctioned corporations releases into the environment. You will deny most of the wrongdoing of the governments, who have become very skilled at hiding the truth, after 7,000 years of experiments. History shows us how the governments have lied and deceived us, massacred and abused people. And you expect that today's governments are actually honest, caring, and have nothing to hide? Those of you have blinders on your eyes, you need to wake up and finally start fixing this world before there will be nothing left for our children's children to see! Everyone is living only for today. Where's a sense of urgency? We humans are supposed to do smart things, since we have a great intelligence that has been used to such horrendous idiocy. Look at the damage.

I can see the denial coming already ...

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

I'm amazed (and unbelieving) of your stories on health.

And if the body can cure itself, why do we die of disease to begin with? What is your answer to curing all of our medical problems? Becoming vegans and taking sugar pills?

And if you want to know why we have new diseases, it's a little thing called evolution. On the microscopic time scale generation times are quite small and evolution is visible. Diseases have been around since the existance of humans, and they have always killed people. The plague, small pox, on and on. There are always diseases around to kill people, and there are constantly new ones formed. Or do you not believe in evolution?

I'm sure as hell glad you're not giving real medical advice. I'd love to see the look on a type I diabetics face when you told them to stop taking their insulin, become a vegan and wait for a new set of kidneys to grow. Or how about you tell a person with Parkinson's that there's no need for L-DOPA, simply stop eating "poisonous" foods and their substantia nigra will miraculously regenerate.

I really hope that you never become seriously ill, but if you do, I really hope you realize modern medicine is here to treat what a "normal healthy person" can't cure on their own.

You want a nice story about all this wonderful and disease-free living? I work at a cancer hospital as I go to school, as I have for the past three years. About a year ago, I had a woman come in with a 15 lbs mass on her abdomen. She realized she was getting sick about a year before and her doctor told her it was cancer. What did she do? She stopped eating meat, took all the vitamins and herbal supplements she could get her hands on, and even went to Mexico for some "holistic" therapy. Well, a year later, the tumor was still growing and had metastisized. A simple surgery at the time of diagnosis would have saved her, but she went the "normal healthy person" route, as you prescribe. So, two years later she's dead, and her three children, all under the age of ten, have no mother. God bless that healthy living!

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I see what you're thinking. You only believe in things that have 100% proof behind in them. In cases where that is not the case, you stick to the main, often the government sponsored view.

No, of the things that have 100% proof behind them I am sure in. Of the things that have at least some proof, I usually believe in them. But for the things that have exactly 0% proof, no, I usually don't believe in them, but unless they have some proof against them, I don't disbelieve them either.

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Placebo effect - countless studies have shown that the body can heal itself after a placebo pill is given. In some controversial cases, I heard such things as cancer and tumours were cures in such a way. But even if that was true, such information would never see the light of day. Pharmaceutical companies with many billions of dollars in sales will be out of business in a day if such information were to be released (on how to cure any disease using your thoughts). I firmly believe all disease is self created. Pharmaceuticals dont give us placebos. They give us drugs at outrageous prices with sideeffects to suppress our symptoms so that we can buy more drugs to suppress the sude effects and then more drugs for those effects and so on. Thats a FACT. FACT: Drugs do not cure disease. Only the body can heal itself. I rest my case.

Right. That's why our average lifespan is now 5 times longer than it was 200 years ago. Or is that another conspiracy? Oh, and how about diseases like polio that have been exterminated thanks to the vaccines? And what about the fact that people were dying off pneumonia and syphillis and all other sorts of diseases years ago and are now just routine cases that get well in a couple of weeks? Or is that all a government conspiracy? Yeah, the plague was not terminal, Decameron was written by the US government agents.

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As for UFO's: why do I have to go in detail on the reason for existence of these crafts - I thought you might've figured my response by now - the craft is neccessary for the protection of the being from the elements, and from exposure to space and ultraviolet radiation, pollution and other things. The power of the thought probably cant control all these elements at once. The alien craft is wired in such a way as to respond to the aliens thought, as in many UFO books and stories it was said that their craft had no gears and such. But you probably dont believe this since there little proof if any out there, and the facts are classified by the governments.

Ah..so they can move faster than light and lift huge boulders and cure themselves of any disease by just using their thoughts, but on the other hand they can't shield themselves from UV radiation, pollution, and - omg - the elements??? Yup, I can move that 500 ton boulder in a sec, but damn that rain is really gonna give me a bad flu.

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I imagine you believe in only a few things, since its hard to find any subject that can be proven 100%, as most of them cannot be proved 100 percent - even the atomic theory itself. But I hope you already know that. So I am basically voicing my opinions, and trying to shed some light on things.

There's a difference between being not being proven 100% and not being proven at all or actually being proven wrong like the Northwood thing.

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BTW, I'm done with this thread.

It's like arguing with a fundamentalist or a brick wall for that matter. No matter how much sense you make, no matter how logically you can refute the other's stance, it's always turned back with the same response.

For a fundamentalist, it's "well, it's in the Bible and the Bible is the word of God. It can't be wrong, we just don't understand it."

In this case, it's "well, just because we don't have facts proving it did happen doesn't mean it didn't happen. It did happen, we just don't understand it yet, or everything we know is wrong."

Once those kind of replies reach a critical mass, you know the debate is over.

^^I kinda like it because he doesn't just repeat himself yet, he keeps bringing new looney theories all the time. I'm interested to see how much more he has to offer.

Anyway, I'm really having a hard time putting together the pyramids, aliens, government conspiracies, 9/11, Atlantis, diseases and vegetarianism. Oh well, at least we all agreed that 2pac is dead. Hopefully.

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