quote:

Originally posted by AwakenedAddict NICE ONE! I called in sick the past two days (terribly sick), but it allowed me to sit on the couch and watch 3 world cup games each day They play the games on flat screens in the PATH foodcourt (under my building), but it just ain't the same.

Yeah, I've caught parts of some of the games in the food courts, but you're right, its just not the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Spam So there goes everyone's argument supporting the ban... And now onto other business... It IS about rights. Other firefighters are allowed to drink, why are these guys being singled out? They complied with the original town order to stop SELLING the booze, and then it got banned anyway, see how one little rule can lead to more? But right at the beginning of the article, the chief claims he DID complie with the requests to stop selling booze, so why ban it? Or, you could acknowledge that they had already stopped selling what's there. Can we all sit down for a second to remember that these guys are VOLUNTEERS? That means they do it out of the kindness of their own hearts, they don't have to do jack shit if they don't want to (like the rest of their town), yet they're willing to put their lives on the line to put out any fires in this town. Now, the mayor has removed their ability to have a drink in the fire-hall. Most of you guys are saying "Who cares? We don't want drunk firefighters anyway." Cosmic Fur especially seems to be of this opinion. One I agree with actually. But lets remember here, it takes a couple drinks to get a buzz going, a couple more to get flat-out drunk. These guys aren't fighting for their right to get trashed in the firehall, they just want the same rights that are extended to every other firehall. That is, the right to have an alcoholic beverage at work, without becoming intoxicated. In the end, their walk-out is inconsequential anyway, it's purely symbolic, because they're still going to respond to emergencies. So what's the big deal?

- the fire hall said they stopped selling to the public...perhaps it's still being "sold" to employees (off duty or not)...perhaps they did NOT stop selling to the public. The counter-claim is that there have been problems there in the past. Since none of us know what those "problems" are, we can't really comment.

point being...this isn't a case of "rights". AFAIK, no one has a "right" to drink at their place of employment (volunteer or not).

Ask yourself this...without even knowing all the facts, why would they strip them of their ability to drink booze there if there were NO problems? Is this a case of a councillor trying to stick it to the volunteers?

sounds shady to me...

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT - the fire hall said they stopped selling to the public...perhaps it's still being "sold" to employees (off duty or not)...perhaps they did NOT stop selling to the public. The counter-claim is that there have been problems there in the past. Since none of us know what those "problems" are, we can't really comment.

You're right, from the information given to us, it's a he-said she-said issue. But the fact remains that only reason being used to justify the ban has been that they were selling to the public. The chief claims they stopped in the Spring. The mayor hasn't said "No, the chief's claims are incorrect." He's simply liberalized his argument and said "There have been numerous problems." But since when? I have no trouble believing that the chief is telling the truth, and the mayor is just trying to look like he's doing something for the community.

quote:

point being...this isn't a case of "rights". AFAIK, no one has a "right" to drink at their place of employment (volunteer or not).

Of course it's a case of rights. Every other firefighter is allowed to drink in their firehall, why aren't these guys? It's no different than the argument homosexuals made to be allowed to get married. "Everyone else can get married, why can't we?"

quote:

Ask yourself this...without even knowing all the facts, why would they strip them of their ability to drink booze there if there were NO problems?

According to the article, they took away the ability because they were selling to the public. But the mayor hasn't bothered to refute the chief's claim that they had already stopped. This tells me that the mayor is trying to make it look like he's doing something for the community by focusing on a minor issue to distract from his inability to anything of actual substance. Must be a liberal.

quote:

Is this a case of a councillor trying to stick it to the volunteers?

The mayor, actually.

quote:

sounds shady to me...

Me too, I want to know why, if there were no problems of actual substance (problems with drunkeness or rowdiness around the firehall, firefighters becoming intoxicated at work... none of which were mentioned, or even implied in the article) why was this ban put in place for any other reason except to "Stop the selling of alcohol to the public."? Keeping in mind that the chief claimed that sales had already stopped, and that claim has not been refuted.

___________________
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Water, Fire, Earth, Wind, Heart???
These forces are supposed to combine to create Captain Planet?
Bullshit.
Those forces combine to create a soaking, boiling mudstorm on Valentine's Day.

They need the beer to piss on the fires. Let them have it.

___________________

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Article from today's Toronto Star...some very interesting differences have been put in bold

quote:

Hackles raised after beer banned from fire hall Jun. 14, 2006. 05:40 PM CANADIAN PRESS ST. JOHN'S — It's a dispute that could be the plot for an episode of The Dukes of Hazzard. The fire chief of a rural Newfoundland community resigned from his duties after Point Leamington's mayor put an end to what firefighters have been able to do for decades: drink beer in the fire hall. "It's not that I came in here and tried to be heavy-handed," said Mayor Robert Elliott. "It was a problem that existed and we felt it couldn't go on any longer." Volunteer firefighters in the town of 600 have routinely sold and consumed alcohol at the station for about 30 years, Elliott said. It was widely known among townsfolk that the fire hall doubled as an unofficial bar, even though firefighters knew selling liquor without a licence was illegal, he said. "They pretty much went in there and played their darts, etcetera, and they had beer," Elliott said Wednesday. So Elliott sent in officials this spring to confiscate alcohol at the fire hall after issuing several warnings about drinking at the premises. "We knew it was going to be a controversial thing because it's been there so long," he said. Frazer Stuckless recently stepped down from his duties as fire chief, leaving Point Leamington without leadership in handling fire calls. The fire chief of Northern Arm, a community about a 15-minute drive away, is on standby in case a fire or other emergency erupts. Stuckless declined comment, but confirmed he left his post as fire chief, and said he complied with the mayor's request to remove alcohol from the premises within three days of taking over the station. Richard Murphy, president of the Newfoundland and Labrador Association of Fire Chiefs and Firefighters, said the dispute tarnishes the image of firefighters across the country. "I really can't believe this has gone to the extent that this has gone now," said Murphy, chief of the Conception Bay South fire department. "It makes everybody look like clowns." Murphy said he suspects there are other fire departments in small towns across Canada that turn a blind eye towards the consumption of alcohol at work. Stuckless was set to meet Wednesday night with his crew of 24 volunteers — who have pledged to still respond to calls — to discuss the standoff. Elliott said his stance was prompted by cases in the past where firefighters responded to calls drunk. "Incidents have occurred where people have showed up to emergencies under the influence," he said. But Elliott said he doesn't want to be known in the town as Captain Comedown, saying he would allow the consumption of alcohol at the fire hall for department socials such as the spring barbecue and Christmas party. "It's not like we're against beer as such," he said, adding that many of the firefighters are upstanding citizens. "There's a lot of good men in that fire department."

So acc. to the mayor, there HAVE been reports of people drinking on the job...and they WERE illegally selling booze without a license.

still convinced that they're "standing up for their rights" Jay?

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT So acc. to the mayor, there HAVE been reports of people drinking on the job...

Their asses should be fired.

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nice to see this discussion wrapped up.

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quote:

Originally posted by AwakenedAddict NICE ONE! I called in sick the past two days (terribly sick), but it allowed me to sit on the couch and watch 3 world cup games each day They play the games on flat screens in the PATH foodcourt (under my building), but it just ain't the same.

it seems like the whole male population of York U. was in our food court today

___________________
Just surrender yourself to the rhythm,
With your hands up in the sky,
Feel the energy deep inside your system
And leave this world behind...

quote:

Originally posted by FunkyGroove so instead of sober firefighters serving their duty, they had a bunch of drunkards running around?!

no different than some small small towns in ontario either..

quote:

Originally posted by Halycon no different than some small small towns in ontario either..

ha, so you are saying that it's a small town phenomenon?

___________________
Just surrender yourself to the rhythm,
With your hands up in the sky,
Feel the energy deep inside your system
And leave this world behind...

quote:

Originally posted by AwakenedAddict Their asses should be fired.

In the Czech republic, it is normal and common for workers to have a beer on the job. I've seen them half-empty next to manholes, painters and other construction jobs. Alcohol is only abused in countries where it's forbidden. I once bought a Stella from a vending machine at a train station in Spain.

___________________

Short time TA, Long time Guver, Good time giver.