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Originally posted by Lira It's a philosophical suicide really, and that's why you sometimes witness irrational acceptance or refusal of a proposition. Emotions play an important role in our life. If we're physically threatened, we feel fear (and find ourselves in a fight or flight situation, be it physically or mentally). Now, if you have an emotional need for a belief - if finding out the truth is painful to you for some reason, and this belief is threatened, you feel a similar fear.

In my opinion belief is a natural instict embedded in the basic structure of human being just as rational thinking is. How can you say having belief is unfortunate ? time comes when in the face of uncertainity, everone puts "faith" into their respective belief. That means they are mixing positive emotions with beliefs to create "hope" for something favorable to happen.

You need to put faith in your belief that you will succeed in your endeavor because you don't know a priori whether you are going to succeed or not.

I would say belief is that which drives everything. People create good and bad things because they place faith in their personal belief and strive to achieve whatever they want. That creates all -isms and all problems and also creates solutions to the problems. Now what causes you to believe in something is an entirely different matter.

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Download and review ! Omega_M - In the Mix (Beta Version)

Originally posted by twilightki : It feels like something you'd listen to at 4 in the morning, or listen to in your car while you're going in a tunnel.

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Originally posted by Omega_M In my opinion belief is a natural instict embedded in the basic structure of human being just as rational thinking is. How can you say having belief is unfortunate ? time comes when in the face of uncertainity, everone puts \"faith\" into their respective belief. That means they are mixing positive emotions with beliefs to create \"hope\" for something favorable to happen. You need to put faith in your belief that you will succeed in your endeavor because you don't know a priori whether you are going to succeed or not. I would say belief is that which drives everything. People create good and bad things because they place faith in their personal belief and strive to achieve whatever they want. That creates all -isms and all problems and also creates solutions to the problems. Now what causes you to believe in something is an entirely different matter.

i think some ambiguity of terms of reference when using words like faith or belief can cause some issues.

for instance i use 'faith' as a polar opposite from 'rational belief'. but sometimes i would use faith in a less academic way, such as 'i have faith that liverpool can win this year's EPL'.

as far as im concerned faith is an unrealistic feeling people use as a substitute for rational enquiry. it doesnt mean you cant have 'faith' in yourself to achieve something, but it IS a negative means to justify, say, belief in something that cannot be proven. yes, people might put 'faith' into their respective belief systems, however if that faith is contrary to empirical or rational evidence, it becomes bollocks.

the problem with most 'faiths' is that people hold them too dearly, as they have an irrational attachment to an idea. logical or rational belief systems are (hopefully) in a state of flux, where if new evidence or logic is brought to bear, a new synthesis is formed from the previous ideas. faith in this way is infallible as it is irrational, and cannot be broken. which is just silly. you only have to look at the scientific faith of alchemy to see what a faithfully pointless exercise it was.

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Faith is only unreasonable to those who dont have it

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Originally posted by Orbax Faith is only unreasonable to those who dont have it

I'm still writing my reply to Omega_M, but I'd like to hear your words on this

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i think orbax is taking the piss lira

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Originally posted by Omega_M In my opinion belief is a natural instict embedded in the basic structure of human being just as rational thinking is. How can you say having belief is unfortunate?

The act of having a belief is, in itself, not unfortunate. The problem begins when this belief becomes irrational after being confronted against reality.

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Originally posted by Omega_M time comes when in the face of uncertainity, everone puts "faith" into their respective belief. That means they are mixing positive emotions with beliefs to create "hope" for something favorable to happen. You need to put faith in your belief that you will succeed in your endeavor because you don't know a priori whether you are going to succeed or not.

Not necessarily.

That's what the whole point of avoiding the philosophical suicide: the possibility of living without a fixed belief, so you can question yourself freely whenever the reality puts you in doubt.

One of the first demands of a thinker is to be independent not just from the surroundings, but also from himself.

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Originally posted by Omega_M I would say belief is that which drives everything. People create good and bad things because they place faith in their personal belief and strive to achieve whatever they want. That creates all -isms and all problems and also creates solutions to the problems. Now what causes you to believe in something is an entirely different matter.

The fact that we're here is what drives everything. Sometimes you might act for reasons not related (at all) to belief, such as boredom.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i think orbax is taking the piss lira

You sure? It's just that I remember him as being religious, so I gave him some credibility on that one

i need to think how to reply .haven't really thought on such topics to comment offhand ! I have a feeling my views are different from both of you (Lira and pkcRAISTLIN) But my thoughts are a bit scattered and i need to see how i can put forth my views with some form of justification

Interesting topic.

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Download and review ! Omega_M - In the Mix (Beta Version)

Originally posted by twilightki : It feels like something you'd listen to at 4 in the morning, or listen to in your car while you're going in a tunnel.

I think youre confusing faith - an ideology regarding that which cant be known with stupidity - still believing something when all evidence disproves it.

Saying they are the same thing is just as misinformed as those who hold stupidity and ignorance to be a religion

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Originally posted by Orbax I think youre confusing faith - an ideology regarding that which cant be known with stupidity - still believing something when all evidence disproves it.

you had better watch out how that definition applies to you

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Originally posted by Trance Nutter you had better watch out how that definition applies to you

You better watch out how my boots gonna be applied to your skull you fuckup