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SmellsExcellent
fuckedupandconfused



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Shangri-La

quote:
Originally posted by Renegade


Yeah but it's basic physics though dude.

The faster an object travels, the greater its mass becomes. If an object were to travel at the speed of light, the mathematics break down, and it has a theoretically infinite mass (I say theoretically firstly because it is impossible for an object to travel that fast, and secondly because no object can have an infinite mass anyway). With black holes they speak of an "infinity" - or a singularity - where the object becomes infinitely dense, but I don't think it's the same thing when it comes to travelling at the speed of light. You just can't do it unfortunately.


mass is a constant, isnt it? I just took physics and im almost positive that mass does not change, weight can, but mass does not. no matter how fast an object goes, its mass is always the same. consider a car traveling at 1 km/h... its the same mass as if the car were traveling at 100 km/h and the same and light speed one would think,, now energy and such, that would all change.. kinetic energy would skyrocket, PE would remain costand unless it (the car) were moving up or down. Hmm....

And Harley, the wormhole pic, good one!

-Marc


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Old Post Mar-14-2002 20:01 
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astroboy
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Melbourne

quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}


ok, but think. say you do go back and kill hitler, then return to the present.

a)there is now two of you?
b)hitler is dead in that reality?
c)possibly 6-8 million new people have been alive for 50 years.. what else could have happened?

but then, think, if you do go back and kill hitler, that means that the past still exists. is there still a past being lived somewhere in the universe? has the future already been realized? i think this is where we get into multi-universes and realities.. which goes far beyond my very basic knowledge of thermodynamics


I've found B the easiest to believe for some strange reason.

I find the idea of multiple universes an interesting proposition.

The idea of multiple universes - particularly as proposed in 1957 by Hugh Everett has always appealed to me. It provides an explanation to both the uncertainty principle and the "anthropic principle" (not to mention helping out Schrodinger's poor cat). Everett proposed that the universe actually did behave in the deterministic way that 19th century physicists thought it did; it just looks uncertainly probabilistic. This works because each event that happens spawns an infinite number of parallel universes, and, taken together, the various versions of the event in question happen with the probability dictated by the uncertainty principle.
*NOTE:the following is slightly OT*
And I'm not alone: Although previously people found Everett's explanation as being far harder to swallow than the Cpenhagen interpretation of quantum theory, it is now being taken up by one David Deutsch, a researcher at Oxford. Not only does Dr Deutsch believe in Everett's parallel universes but he thinks it may be possible (in a manner of speaking) to collaborate with them.
The Universe-straddling machines he has in mind are quantum computers. Primitive versions have been built and enthusiasts (Deutsch included) believe that in decades to come this will become mainstream technology.
Normal computers work by manipulating data in the form of binary digits (bits). A quantum computer manipulates "qubits". In the Copenhagen interpretation, their values are indeterminate until an observer attempts to examine them (if he does the 'uncertainty' collapses and he is left with an ordinary, non-quantum 'bit').
The result is that many calculations can be performed in parallel so long as their intermediate steps remain unexamined - ie a quantum computer with a certain number of qubits can perform more calculations than a normal computer with the same number of bits. The number of possible calculations actually goes up exponentially with the number of qubits. In fact it would not take a particularly large quantum computer to perform more calculations than there are particles in the known universe, let alone the computer itself. Hence Dr Deutsch argues that the computation can not be occurring in a single universe.Computing is not an abstract process and the information being manipulated must be associated with something physical. The explanation Deutsch provides is that the calculations are being performed in parallel universes. In other words the different parallel machines in the different parallel universes are collaborating !! - how's that for trippy?


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Last edited by astroboy on Mar-15-2002 at 06:14

Old Post Mar-15-2002 05:33  Australia
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SmellsExcellent
fuckedupandconfused



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Shangri-La

quote:
Originally posted by {b.s.e.}
ok, but think. say you do go back and kill hitler, then return to the present.

a)there is now two of you?
b)hitler is dead in that reality?
c)possibly 6-8 million new people have been alive for 50 years.. what else could have happened?

but then, think, if you do go back and kill hitler, that means that the past still exists. is there still a past being lived somewhere in the universe? has the future already been realized? i think this is where we get into multi-universes and realities.. which goes far beyond my very basic knowledge of thermodynamics


Ok, I think that if you can travel back in time, then there are actually infinite instances of "reality." You can go back to any time period and it can change from what really happened or what will happen. So if you go back and kill Hitler, it will only change the future for that instance of reality. When you go back in time, nothing will change. Because HOW can instantly 6million plus offspring ans such and all the details of a life just materialize, and how could 6 billionn people forget a huge part of world history just like that???

-Marc


___________________

no obstacles between my heart and my words; my lips, the great liaison to my soul.

Old Post Mar-15-2002 14:30 
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TranceGiant
randomly disappoints



Registered: Jun 2001
Location: (Strudel)-City that never sleeps

*holds his heads together so it wont explode*
I must admit that my english is too weak to understand all of that. Generally i speak quite well but if it gets specific (may it be physcis, maths, economy, law)i have some problems. Nevertheless ill try and add a lill bit to this really really interesting thread. By the way i assume that the majority of us doesnt like physcis at all (annoying simple shit like optics,electricity etc.) but when it comes to abstract fields like time/big bang/light, where its not just about some formulas but really gets in to philosophy, every1s fascinated and likes to dicuss it. (at least its the case with me..)

From what i remember from philosophy, one guy (Augustinus...Roman bishop and philosoph) once said that time is our subjective relation to our...surroundings? .. psychological relation to reality(thats it ...
That "subjective" time consists of three parts: Past, Present, Future.
Past = Our memories, Present = What we see hear, experience right now, Future = Our hopes, fears and expectations
Strictly seen The scond WW doesnt exist in my system, since i cant remember it. Still theres some kind of collective time awareness, aka History. hm.. Oh he too says that Infinity is the negation of time. I forgot why, though
Renegade said that there is no big cosmic watch. Alright, time is relative, but eventually has just one thingto take care of: Light is not allowed to be speeded up/slowed down. Velocity of light MUST be constant. If i stand and throw a ping pong ball at a window, it wont break. However, if ill sit on a super fast rocket, approaching the window and then throw it,it'll break the shit out of it The velocity of the rocket was added to the ball's one. Kinetic energy got higher etc.
BUT! If ill ride my bike with my lights one, i can drive as fast as possible , it'll never change the speed of light. The clocks in space adjust themselves so that this speed remains constant. Okay, so hence travelling on a fucking fast space ship will let timepass extremly slow (in that system only). I think that it also explains why gravity influences time. Since gravity influences space, its curving light, which would theoretically speed it up, but now times comes and says NO,by just passing slower. I forgot, however, why your mass is growing the faster ure trvallin..
Anyway, Light controlls it all, some kind of god IMO.

Back to the non-physical, but more pilosopical view on time. Time can be also seen as a system that rgulates successions of events, or that describes "change" generally. Now you would ask, what ifi put a single atom into an empty white (or yellow) room. and it doesnt move, explode, whatever. Did time pass?
Yess, according to the quantum theory, everything moves. U'll never be able to predict where an electron is right now exactely. U'll either know it place(em..makes sense right)or its speed. something like that. Thats why u know only probabilities of where its to be found right now. Like..when u see a kissing couple for far behind, u wont knowexactely where they sit and if ull get nearer theyll stand up and vanish..being scared. (unless they enjoy being watched, well electrones are prude then).

@Astroboy. about time travelling, i never thought about it but ure right. Ill go even further. U cant do ANYTHING in the past, cause if u changed something, its changed, which means that u cant change it anymore *thinks*Okay: If u kill Hitler, then back at the point u travell in order to kill him, u wont be able to, since uve already done it, but then again, not since u couldnt, since u already did and so on... Thats why ull never kill Hitler. Hmm..

About Black Holes: They suck ..but..at what speed and Until when?
If there'd be only one black hole, which however sucks everything in an infitine speed and without an end..there'd be no Universe...Or are we already in a black hole? Whats outside of what we call "universe"?
Is our universe, compared to others just a little point? Maybe a ball, some huge aliens play soccer with?..hm
think about it


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Old Post Mar-15-2002 17:58  United States
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Ste
Planet Zogg Addict



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Outer Dementia

time is a dimension, the 4th dimension. you have length 1st, then width, to create 2d, then 3d is depth. time is a fourth deminsion because it can be measured in length.

my theory is that, with the big bang, we were not only catapulted outwards in 3 dimensions that are "visible" wer were also sent catapulted along the dimension of time at an equal speed, similar to being launched into orbit or whatever. hey, we may not even be travelling along the time dimension fast at all, but to us it relative, as time as we know it. in this respect time being a dimention, it cant be bent around, just like a piece of string (1D)can be, a shape folded over (2D), or a box crushed or morphed in shape (3D). in respect to this time can be travlled, although im not going into it it basically involves two black holes combining until they reach a critical mass blah blah blah. if time did exist then we cudnt travel along it, and everythign woudl be still. in fcat without it the other 3 dimensions before it might as well not exist. could go onto the existance of a 5th deminsion and the existance of superstrings but hey its friday night

hope i enlightened ur lives with some of my complex random physical blerb


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Old Post Mar-15-2002 19:27  England
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Ste
Planet Zogg Addict



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Outer Dementia

quote:
Originally posted by randummboy
hmm.. i dont see why traveling faster than the speed of light is such a big deal.. your not going to dissappeear into thin air or anthing.. because just casue you cant see something, it doenst mean its not there. so lets say you are travelling faster than the speed of light.
you will not beable to see anything, but its still going to be there.. does anyone understand what i'm saying?


hehe its not possible to travel faster than the speed of light im afraid. you can have an infinate amount of energy and momentum but never reach the actual speed of light (photons have an incredibly small but non-zero mass)

its the reasoning behind mr einsteins e=mc2 thingymabob

altohught the closer to the speed of light you get, the smaller you get, and the slower everything else seems relative to you, but only relatively. you dont get squished, you jsut occupy a smaller space, if you get what i mean. and with time being a dimension, it gets squashed, so you think everything not moving at near light speed is moving slower, when infact its you who is made smaller over the time dimension. althught this can only be observed at 75% the speed of light, or something like that! hehe


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Old Post Mar-15-2002 19:35  England
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astroboy
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Melbourne

quote:
Originally posted by SmellsExcellent

Because HOW can instantly 6million plus offspring ans such and all the details of a life just materialize, and how could 6 billionn people forget a huge part of world history just like that???

-Marc


They don't instantly materialise. As soon as you change the past they will have always existed. Similarly no-one will forget a part of world history - this part of history will never have happened and there will never have been knowledge of it intheir minds, hence there is nothing to forget.

BTW: nice pic from the National Geographic - there's something about that chick's eyes that always makes me remember that image.


___________________
"my son will be a gienues(sp?)" - Originally posted by Googooly
"many species of bear give blowjobs." - Originally posted by Sunsnail.. NOW CONFIRMED BY PHOTO EVIDENCE!
"astroboy is brave and gentle and wise." - Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
"ew! i wouldn't go anywhere near a homeless dudes butthole... not even if i was sodomizing him with a poison ivy cactus dildo" - Originally posted by lücid
"also can someone post the link to my mom's forum, thank you!" - Originally posted by miamitrance04
"dude man its not me its what the world does to me. Trust me I'm a normal person people just constantly fuck with me." Originally posted by ********
"I can see Lira getting a hard-on already. And believe me, Brazilian ass rape is the worst." - Originally posted by Meat187

Last edited by astroboy on Mar-16-2002 at 01:11

Old Post Mar-16-2002 01:00  Australia
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astroboy
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Melbourne

Trancegiant
I believe recently physicists have been able to slow down a photon almost to a standstill - I think they did it in a Bose-Einstein condensate. I'll dig around and try to find the article then I'll post more info.


___________________
"my son will be a gienues(sp?)" - Originally posted by Googooly
"many species of bear give blowjobs." - Originally posted by Sunsnail.. NOW CONFIRMED BY PHOTO EVIDENCE!
"astroboy is brave and gentle and wise." - Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
"ew! i wouldn't go anywhere near a homeless dudes butthole... not even if i was sodomizing him with a poison ivy cactus dildo" - Originally posted by lücid
"also can someone post the link to my mom's forum, thank you!" - Originally posted by miamitrance04
"dude man its not me its what the world does to me. Trust me I'm a normal person people just constantly fuck with me." Originally posted by ********
"I can see Lira getting a hard-on already. And believe me, Brazilian ass rape is the worst." - Originally posted by Meat187

Old Post Mar-16-2002 01:13  Australia
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