Too touch up on a few of your responses:

They come into contradiction with each other? According to who? Not me... or, for that matter, the Roman Catholic Church. In my opinion, all of our scientific discoveries reaffirm the necessity of God. Yes, look at a strand of DNA, and tell me that it could have accidentally been made... yeah... some matter flew together, and suddenly we have genetic code? I don't think so.

See, according to science, a little thing called the resurrection couldn't have taken place. And to say that Genetic Code was created by God is just hilarious. God felt it necessary to give us DNA? C'mon.

But really, I don't see what the problem is... why can't dinosaurs exist? Does it contradict some aspect of Christian faith? I don't see how.
Everyone knows the Adam & Eve story is made up... but for argument's sake let's say it isn't. God created animals (like dinosaurs) before humans. So what's the problem?

The length of the Earth's existence is why science contradicts religion when it comes to the dinosaurs. According to the bible, there is no way that the earth could have existed for tens of millions of years. Yet Dinosaur fossils are scientifically proven to be millions of years old. Another case in which science contradicts religion.

But it can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt

Ok, please prove beyond a resonable doubt that God created stuff. I'd like living proof too please, not textual references to the bible or ideologies about faith.

Ahh.. now you're not an athiest anymore, you're a partial deist. The problem with deism is that it's "the easy way out" since deists acknowledge God, but don't work to develop a relationship with Him.


Who are you to say what type of relationship God wants with people? Most people undervalue God if he does exist. It's always "God please help me out and I'll always go to church" or "God please give me this ferrari, It's what I always wanted." People grovel and plead to much with God. For that matter, who says God wants a direct relationship with us? It's all just personnal interpretation, so there is no definite right or wrong.

___________________
Trance...a state of mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Russo But there is always the possibility of repentance so she should not be robbed of her life and her ability to change.

I agree. Its not our place to execute criminals. Clearly she has a sickness. Anyone who could harm innocent children or another human being is sick in a way. She has to live with it, live and let live I say.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert See, according to science, a little thing called the resurrection couldn't have taken place.

I wouldn't call the Resurrection little. But yeah, that defies science... that's why its called a miracle. God created science, so He's obviously above it.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert And to say that Genetic Code was created by God is just hilarious. God felt it necessary to give us DNA? C'mon.

That reference to DNA and genetic code was just an example. But, since you think its so "hilarious", answer this: what's more funny? That God created genetic code, or that it magically appeared out of nowhere?

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert The length of the Earth's existence is why science contradicts religion when it comes to the dinosaurs. According to the bible, there is no way that the earth could have existed for tens of millions of years. Yet Dinosaur fossils are scientifically proven to be millions of years old. Another case in which science contradicts religion.

According to the Bible? Please give me a book and chapter and verse number in the New Testament that says this. It doesn't matter how long the Earth has existed. The Catholic Church teaches that it is possible that God created the Earth and very slowly, out of a single celled organism, created/ evolved humans.

I fail to see a contradiction.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert Ok, please prove beyond a resonable doubt that God created stuff. I'd like living proof too please, not textual references to the bible or ideologies about faith.

Thomas Aquinas wrote it all down. And he can explain it a lot better than I can.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert Who are you to say what type of relationship God wants with people? Most people undervalue God if he does exist. It's always "God please help me out and I'll always go to church" or "God please give me this ferrari, It's what I always wanted." People grovel and plead to much with God. For that matter, who says God wants a direct relationship with us?

Some people don't know how to have the right relationship with God. That's why its called a relationship... if you don't treat your girlfriend properly what happens? If you demand from God but don't do anything He wants you to do the same will happen.

As to your question about whether God wants a relationship with His people, the answer is simple - If God did not want us, we wouldn't be here right now, or He wouldn't have made us in the first place. It's all out of love... and it isn't true love unless both parties love each other mutually.

I wouldn't call the Resurrection little. But yeah, that defies science... that's why its called a miracle. God created science, so He's obviously above it.

Please prove the Resurrection happened. Without quoting the Bible.

That reference to DNA and genetic code was just an example. But, since you think its so "hilarious", answer this: what's more funny? That God created genetic code, or that it magically appeared out of nowhere?

It makes sense on an evolutionary level that single celled organisms evolved, and because of this the complexity of their cells evolved with them. Which would explain DNA, rather then just proclaiming "The magic man in the sky made it!"

According to the Bible? Please give me a book and chapter and verse number in the New Testament that says this. It doesn't matter how long the Earth has existed. The Catholic Church teaches that it is possible that God created the Earth and very slowly, out of a single celled organism, created/ evolved humans.

I fail to see a contradiction.

Ok, so it's ok to throw out the idea of Adam and Eve, but take the rest of the bible seriously. I thought you were all about total belief or total disregard. If some of it can be disregarded, all of it can. And if Adam and Eve existed, then Dinosaurs never did.

Thomas Aquinas wrote it all down. And he can explain it a lot better than I can.

Just because something is written down doesn't make it true. I'm sure I can point to much more evidence that God doesn't exist then you can point to that he does. However we each have our own viewpoints, and showing a lot of evidence isn't gonna change either of our perspectives.

Some people don't know how to have the right relationship with God. That's why its called a relationship... if you don't treat your girlfriend properly what happens? If you demand from God but don't do anything He wants you to do the same will happen.

As to your question about whether God wants a relationship with His people, the answer is simple - If God did not want us, we wouldn't be here right now, or He wouldn't have made us in the first place. It's all out of love... and it isn't true love unless both parties love each other mutually.

How do we know what God wants us to do? All we have is interpretable information from a 2000 year old book. Maybe God just wants to be left alone, and he can deal with us as he please when we die.

Your logic is that because God created us, he wants a relationship. What about animals? Does he want a relationship with them? Do animals go to heaven?

Lets say God did create us. That doesn't mean he loves us. Once again conclusions are being drawn from an unreliable resource. Maybe humanity is just God's science experiment. A test in the nature of being. No way to disprove that theory.

___________________
Trance...a state of mind.

OMG! you are all talking about religion again? jeez...Swamp will need to make this its own forum - we can start a topic on anything we want, but the discussion has to end up with flaming and jesus talk! ???/

Hehe, probably. The topic was relating to a woman who killed her kids to save them from Satan, so it was bound to become a religion debate.

___________________
Trance...a state of mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert Please prove the Resurrection happened. Without quoting the Bible.

How about history? We know for sure Jesus existed. And we know for sure that THOUSANDS were converted on Pentecost. And we know for sure that Christians were persecuted and tortured and killed for their beliefs but still the community grew stronger and larger.

Do the math.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert It makes sense on an evolutionary level that single celled organisms evolved, and because of this the complexity of their cells evolved with them. Which would explain DNA, rather then just proclaiming "The magic man in the sky made it!"

And who made the single celled organisms? Who made matter?

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert Ok, so it's ok to throw out the idea of Adam and Eve, but take the rest of the bible seriously. I thought you were all about total belief or total disregard. If some of it can be disregarded, all of it can. And if Adam and Eve existed, then Dinosaurs never did.

No... first of all, let's deal with the New Testament because that contains the essence of Christianity. The historical validity of biblical passages in the Old Testament is not important.

And even if Adam and Eve existed, the dinosaurs still could have. Animals were made before humans, as I said before.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert Just because something is written down doesn't make it true. I'm sure I can point to much more evidence that God doesn't exist then you can point to that he does. However we each have our own viewpoints, and showing a lot of evidence isn't gonna change either of our perspectives.

Of course just because something is written down doesn't automatically make it true. I never said it did. I just told you to read Aquinas' works. Then you can judge it yourself.

Sharing a lot of evidence can change viewpoints. That's the purpose of debating issues.
If you can convince me, I'll stop believing.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert Lets say God did create us. That doesn't mean he loves us. Once again conclusions are being drawn from an unreliable resource. Maybe humanity is just God's science experiment. A test in the nature of being. No way to disprove that theory.

If He didn't love us, He would destroy the universe and everything that He created. The only reason we are here is because love is diffusive. God does not need us, but because of His love He made us. He has no need for science experiments, because He would already know the answers.

quote:

Originally posted by biznology OMG! you are all talking about religion again? jeez...Swamp will need to make this its own forum - we can start a topic on anything we want, but the discussion has to end up with flaming and jesus talk! ???/

Hahaha... sorry, I'm new here, and I didn't know about those other threads.

First off, I don't want you to stop believing. If Christianity makes you a better human being, I'm all for it. However it puts a lot of people on a high judgemental perspective that they have the right to judge others. I'm not religous, and I don't need to be told I'm gonna burn in hell for not believing what someone else does.

How about history? We know for sure Jesus existed. And we know for sure that THOUSANDS were converted on Pentecost. And we know for sure that Christians were persecuted and tortured and killed for their beliefs but still the community grew stronger and larger.

Do the math.

Yes, he existed. Yes, we know people were easily led back in the days (ruled over by opressing governments). And we know that the average life expectancy was under 30 years of age, giving people a very nervous feeling about death, and who would be very willing to embrace the theory that they would be given eternal pleasure for a temporary lifetime of servitude. All it proves is that people would believe very strange things back in the day. They weren't as intellectually developed as they are today, and coudln't explain a lot of things. Like rain. Precipitation, Evaporation, those terms didn't apply in those days. It was considered an act of the Gods to make it rain by the Greeks.

And who made the single celled organisms? Who made matter?

There is the big-bang theory, which is no more ludacris then the idea that a man who lives in the sky made them.

No... first of all, let's deal with the New Testament because that contains the essence of Christianity. The historical validity of biblical passages in the Old Testament is not important.

And even if Adam and Eve existed, the dinosaurs still could have. Animals were made before humans, as I said before.

What was wrong with the Old Testament? It was the original, wasn't it? And the historical validity of the biblical passages is important. There are people who believe that the majority of the stories are to explain and identify Christian morals and beliefs, and others believe that they are facts passed down through time. God made the Earth in 7 days, right? I'll drop the Old Testament/New Testament debate, because they are contrary views, and to argue with you based on what you don't believe in would be pointless.

If He didn't love us, He would destroy the universe and everything that He created. The only reason we are here is because love is diffusive. God does not need us, but because of His love He made us. He has no need for science experiments, because He would already know the answers.

That's not true. That's your assumption that he lets us remain here out of love. Maybe he forgot about us. Or cares just enough to let us stay, but not help us out. It is only a believed theory that God made us because of his love. I think God is way often treated like a human being. God is not human, yet he is represented by so many human characteristics, like an ultimate father figure. So who is to say that God can feel emotion or love? It is all interpretation of prehistoric text. And if God already knows the answers, then it's kind of tough to explain what this woman did to her 5 kids. God created people like this? He has a mean streak I guess.

I find the concept of heaven amusing almost. What is heaven like? If you die old, do you go there looking like you did when you died? Or when you were 21? Or do you get a choice, and get to change form? And what is appearance anyways, except a mind-altered perception of ourselves. Think about the most enjoyable things in life for a lot of people: Sex, Loud Music, Drugs. They aren't done very often, but are arguably the most enjoyable. Heaven is treated like a 24 hour pleasure trip, yet I don't think God would appreciate a bunch of Stoner Nymphomaniacs bumping Pink Floyd. Or maybe he would. However, what I do know is that even the most enjoyable things get boring when done for extremely long periods of time. Eternal life in heaven would eventually become a hell in accordance with this theory.

Religion is more about personnal agenda then anything else. If believing in something makes you kinder, smarter, and you can enjoy your time on this Earth more because of it, then I applaude you. But as I stated earlier, I don't need a moral guilt trip from my neighborhood Christians for how I live my life. I don't tell you what you should do.

___________________
Trance...a state of mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert Religion is more about personnal agenda then anything else. If believing in something makes you kinder, smarter, and you can enjoy your time on this Earth more because of it, then I applaude you. But as I stated earlier, I don't need a moral guilt trip from my neighborhood Christians for how I live my life. I don't tell you what you should do.

Beautifully said!

Thank you.

___________________
Trance...a state of mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Devbert Thank you.

Your welcome Can we stop bickering and arguing now?