quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Sorry, but that is a CROCK of SHIT. Your argument presumes that there is no other option but to go nuclear. The U.S. has said it doesn't want to attack the Norks, and even then, nobody FORCED anyone to do ANYTHING. Plenty of countries in the world "fear" the U.S. for whatever reason, but you don't see them with their backs pinned against the wall saying, "Oh, we simply MUST develop nuclear weapons because the U.S. is FORCING us to." Nevermind that the Norks are so far in violation of an agreemnt that they signed in the 90's that they FORCED the U.S. to EXPOSE them for their shinanigans.

And USA didnt violate the treaty either you say? How about USA calling NK as part of AXIS OF EVIL, oh yeah, I'd feel secure too. And so much for protection - Iraq and Afghanistan are now occupied, in the name of democracy and whatever else. Dictators of NK are not dumb, USA violated its obligations first, and NK had to follow suit.

Remember how Americans threatened Soviets with Nukes after WW2? Well, after Soviets developed nukes in 1948, their got their own security. NK, another communist dictatorship, is trying to do the same. I am not protecting them by any means, I am just pointing out some logic in their choices.

Yeah, some other countries have their backs against the wall, but they dont even have nuclear reactors for christ's sake. NK had nuclear capability, nuclear reactors. Weapons are just a step up.

NK doesnt have any other options. Why? Because their weapons are obsolete outdated for christ's sakes the tanks are old their methods are cheap and frankly even Chinese are not going to support them (as shown recently), they're starving, so nuclear weapons are a cheap deterrent force. How come you dont see that?

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

OMG! Somebody called us a bad name!?! Those meanies! Whatever happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones but names can do no harm?"

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium And USA didnt violate the treaty either you say? How about USA calling NK as part of AXIS OF EVIL, oh yeah, I'd feel secure too. And so much for protection - Iraq and Afghanistan are now occupied, in the name of democracy and whatever else. Dictators of NK are not dumb, USA violated its obligations first, and NK had to follow suit. Remember how Americans threatened Soviets with Nukes after WW2? Well, after Soviets developed nukes in 1948, their got their own security. NK, another communist dictatorship, is trying to do the same. I am not protecting them by any means, I am just pointing out some logic in their choices. Yeah, some other countries have their backs against the wall, but they dont even have nuclear reactors for christ's sake. NK had nuclear capability, nuclear reactors. Weapons are just a step up. NK doesnt have any other options. Why? Because their weapons are obsolete outdated for christ's sakes the tanks are old their methods are cheap and frankly even Chinese are not going to support them (as shown recently), they're starving, so nuclear weapons are a cheap deterrent force. How come you dont see that?

I must have missed the clause in the treaty that said we couldn't call NK names. Secondly, how elementary school for NK to run into an arms race over it. Other than that, what obligations did we violate.

The reason the Chinese don't support them is their own dumb fault, too, as further illustrated by the stance China is taking with the nuclear proliferation. China has bailed them out before, but if you were China, would you stick up for this idiot now? Maybe if their dictator/god were a little more level-headed, he'd have supporters other than Iran and Venezuela.

The problem with NK is that they don't believe in diplomacy, they believe in blackmailing everyone with their weapons to get what they want.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka OMG! Somebody called us a bad name!?! Those meanies! Whatever happened to "sticks and stones may break my bones but names can do no harm?"

He probably thinks that the Columbine kids were justified, too.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

Its pretty straightforward how USA violated its obligations. Iraq signed a treaty not to develop nukes in return for guarantee of non-agression from nuclear powers. And guess what happened to Iraq ... oh, there were no weapons of mass destruction just in case you say Iraq was developing weapons in violation of their treaty.

You do the math with NK.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy He probably thinks that the Columbine kids were justified, too.

f that, I'm buying a trenchcoat on the way home!

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Its pretty straightforward how USA violated its obligations. Iraq signed a treaty not to develop nukes in return for guarantee of non-agression from nuclear powers. And guess what happened to Iraq ... oh, there were no weapons of mass destruction just in case you say Iraq was developing weapons in violation of their treaty. You do the math with NK.

I was talking about with NK in case you missed that.

Secondly, the reason there was support for the invasion of Iraq was Saddam's unwillingness to allow inspectors in to prove there were no weapons, in case you missed that part of the escalation. I know you'd like to blame the US for everything that's wrong with the world, but blame can lie on both sides last I checked.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy I was talking about with NK in case you missed that. Secondly, the reason there was support for the invasion of Iraq was Saddam's unwillingness to allow inspectors in to prove there were no weapons, in case you missed that part of the escalation. I know you'd like to blame the US for everything that's wrong with the world, but blame can lie on both sides last I checked.

Its not just USA part of the problem ... all powerful countries, be it Russia, EU, China, India, NATO are a problem. But thats a different topic.

It just seems like whenever there's a conflict around the world, most of the time USA is right in the middle of it. I mean, is it Russia's fault for excalation of Middle East crisis, is Russia is any way involved? Is Russia involved in Iraq? Even EU got pushed out. American government recently announced that it has the right to prevent access to space to any countries that are not its friends. Yeah, that speaks volumes.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Its not just USA part of the problem ... all powerful countries, be it Russia, EU, China, India, NATO are a problem. But thats a different topic. It just seems like whenever there's a conflict around the world, most of the time USA is right in the middle of it. I mean, is it Russia's fault for excalation of Middle East crisis, is Russia is any way involved? Is Russia involved in Iraq? Even EU got pushed out. American government recently announced that it has the right to prevent access to space to any countries that are not its friends. Yeah, that speaks volumes.

Often times the "world" demands that the U.S. "do something" about whatever they think is wrong, no? Why does the U.S. often get called on to be the world's policeman? Then suddenly the world doesn't like how the U.S. is doing things so they criticize them. This is a battle the U.S. will never be able to win.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium It just seems like whenever there's a conflict around the world, most of the time USA is right in the middle of it.

First, you dodged pretty much everything I said by bringing up these other topics, but I'll still address the new material.

I think the main problem is that most of the world expects us to half-police it. Every time there's some sort of humanitarian crisis, everyone comes bitching to us because we've got the money and the strength. When smaller countries are pressured by their neighbors, like Kuwait, they come to the US.

Personally, I just wish we'd give it up for awhile and worry about our own problems. Let some other nations bear the burden of taking care of everyone else rather than us for awhile. Let focused humanitarian organizations fund this stuff rather than throwing my tax dollars at governments who do God knows what with it. Let a few other countries piss off the world when they have to use military force to protect smaller countries.

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Often times the "world" demands that the U.S. "do something" about whatever they think is wrong, no? Why does the U.S. often get called on to be the world's policeman? Then suddenly the world doesn't like how the U.S. is doing things so they criticize them. This is a battle the U.S. will never be able to win.

Kind of funny how we've been typing the same thing at the same time all day

___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

LOL ... the world DEMANDED USA NOT to invade Iraq, Afghanistan. UN even told USA not to invade, but to continue pursuing political solutions. USA refused. And no weapons have been found, and Iraq and Afghanistan today are not better off than they were before: the countries are in ruins, rape murder and bombings are everyday, corruption lack of jobs, no schools or money for many kids to go to schools, etc. etc.

It is UN's job to police the world, not USA. USA is only following its own interests, not the worlds interests. USA doesnt give a shit how many people are starving around the world, and how the same dictatorships it helped to install since 1970s around the world has killed so many innocent people. USA called Georgia's new leader as democratic. Yeah, he arrests the opposition en-masse claiming they were planning to overthrow the state. Yeah, democracy .... democracy in Turkmenistan, USA's ally in War On Terror - yet Turmenistan is one of the world worst authoritarian states ... WOO HOO, bring democracy around the world!

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture