I'd love to sit & read through all these pages of bs to enlighten myself about depression. But I won't, as I know from first hand experience & suffering what works, & what doesn't.

+1 for anti-depressants.

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Originally posted by Zild What the fuck are you doing at a psychiatrist if you aren't wacked to hell is the first place? Of course they are going to give you drugs. If those don't help they'll give you a different one, if that doesn't help they'll give you a different type of drug. It's all natural of course a small amount of people respond to any single prescription but if you are willing to run the gamut you have a high chance of finding one that works for you. Of course you won't belive me if you have never dealt with this yourself but I don't give a fuck.

Please learn to read. I was not "complaining" about anything and was not surprised at the mere fact that a psychiatrist would give me drugs. I was surprised at the speed and nonchalance with which the "diagnosis" occurred and how quickly drugs got thrown out. That is all.

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Originally posted by Psy-T and how do you diffrentiate them? how can you expect the team behind the research we discussed earlier to show which sort of depression the patients in question were exhibiting and the sources of it in each patient to begin with?

i expect them to be able to present such information as given them as medical researchers. ie a patient's history would be confirmed to ensure they fit the criteria for the exercise. ive already stated its difficult to differentiate between different forms of depression, but that doesn't mean that the differences dont exist.

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Originally posted by Psy-T also, you could at least give me the courtesy of presenting articles which actually bother to cite references, methodologies, et cetera. i troubled myself searching for such sites to pay you that very same courtesy. if you're not willing, i could easily go down to that level and give you plenty of links claiming the benefits of meditation towards the manic depressive, perheps even some of them might diffrentiate between the 'types' of depression out there.

its really not that easy, and i certainly did try (but i did have to rush off for an afternoon snooze). most stuff you will find are government websites & support groups that synthesise such information, rather than providing lengthy discussion on the particular sciences behind it. i believed the onus to be on you as you were the one advocating the power of meditation in "curing" depression, whereas the use of anti-depressants and mood stabilisers has a long history of successes that i accept at face value.

im not sure exactly what youre after. are you denying the history and success of medication to treat mental disorders and do you wish me to go find you that evidence? as treatment in the form of medication is so widespread, its kind of accepted science that medication can and does provide an answer for hundreds of thousands of people worldwide.

now, if youre asking me to differentiate between the complex causes and perpetuating symptoms of depression, then thats far more difficult. i'll admit that again, i accept the medical community's opinions at face value, as im not a doctor. so when my doctor, or a site run by doctors, such as psychiatry souce tells me there are different forms of depression brought on by different (though sometimes concurrent) means, then i'll take their word for it. ill also take their word for it that SSRIs work by targeting a particular part of the brain that isn't functioning as well as it should.

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Originally posted by Aristronica you see. that's precisely why i don't argue with this bastard.

yeah, whatever you reckon halfwit. dont blame me for your intellectual shortcomings.

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Originally posted by Arbiter You might as well - the body of evidence supporting the efficacy of SSRIs bears a stunning similarity with that supporting the healing power of prayer.

*cough* bullshit *cough* do you just get your jollies by flying in the face of scientific opinion?

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I did a 15 page research essay on this very topic, using peer reviewed journals, not some bullshit off Google.

The conclusion was that combination therapy works best. There is evidence that supports drug treatment AND therapy treatment, but none to show that one is better than the other.

You have to be a student at my school to view the articles, but I'll see what I can do about copy+pasting them.


And I'm sorry, but the DSM isn't bullshit. One can make criticisms of ANY book if they want, give me a break. LOL.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN *cough* bullshit *cough* do you just get your jollies by flying in the face of scientific opinion?

If I did, I'd have to look elsewhere. I don't call this science.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i expect them to be able to present such information as given them as medical researchers. ie a patient's history would be confirmed to ensure they fit the criteria for the exercise. ive already stated its difficult to differentiate between different forms of depression, but that doesn't mean that the differences dont exist.

in a world where the current trend is towards giving everyone antidepressants with almost no regard for the source of the depression, and with nearly no differentiation between depression 'types' anywhere either of us looked, you expect this under-funded research group to provide something that even the well funded research groups don't provide, all the while noting the difficulty in doing such differentiation?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN its really not that easy, and i certainly did try (but i did have to rush off for an afternoon snooze). most stuff you will find are government websites & support groups that synthesise such information, rather than providing lengthy discussion on the particular sciences behind it. i believed the onus to be on you as you were the one advocating the power of meditation in "curing" depression, whereas the use of anti-depressants and mood stabilisers has a long history of successes that i accept at face value. im not sure exactly what youre after. are you denying the history and success of medication to treat mental disorders and do you wish me to go find you that evidence? as treatment in the form of medication is so widespread, its kind of accepted science that medication can and does provide an answer for hundreds of thousands of people worldwide. now, if youre asking me to differentiate between the complex causes and perpetuating symptoms of depression, then thats far more difficult. i'll admit that again, i accept the medical community's opinions at face value, as im not a doctor. so when my doctor, or a site run by doctors, such as psychiatry souce tells me there are different forms of depression brought on by different (though sometimes concurrent) means, then i'll take their word for it. ill also take their word for it that SSRIs work by targeting a particular part of the brain that isn't functioning as well as it should.

the onus was on me - i already fulfilled it with a selection of peer reviewed research articles, and a source to many more.
however the onus regarding depression 'types' still remains on you, even moreso because of controversies you've raised in your 'evidence'-post in the begining of this page (@30ppp) when you declared the effects of ecstasy's comedown on the brain, in other words you have shown that all the depression 'types' you've acknowledged and exhibited share the same effect on the brain.
what you are supposed to demonstrate 1. is the existence of a 'biological' source to these effects, and 2. a research supporting the efficacy of SSRI drugs on patients who are depressed due to a 'biological source', while differentiating them from otherwise depressed patients, and most preferably being treated in a way that would actually cure them, rather than focus on weakening the symptoms they experience.

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie I did a 15 page research essay on this very topic, using peer reviewed journals, not some bullshit off Google.

good for you!
all the 'evidence' i've cited was published on peer reviewed journals.

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Originally posted by jennypie And I'm sorry, but the DSM isn't bullshit. One can make criticisms of ANY book if they want, give me a break. LOL.

and i'm sorry, but my posts aren't bullshit. one can make criticisms of ANY post if they want, give me a break. LOL.

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T good for you! all the 'evidence' i've cited was published on peer reviewed journals. and i'm sorry, but my posts aren't bullshit. one can make criticisms of ANY post if they want, give me a break. LOL.

Whatever.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Whatever.

brilliant argument!

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T brilliant argument!

I don't have an ego as lare as yours to feed, therefore, no need to argue about something I know perfectly well the answer to.

Vote J.pie

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie I don't have an ego as lare as yours to feed, therefore, no need to argue about something I know perfectly well the answer to.

yeah, keep telling yourself that, just don't forget to get the last word while you're at it.

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)