quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Even if there were no plans to have children? Even if there was an understanding that you would not have children, but the woman later changes her mind and decides to carry to term? You are responsible for her choices?

naive remark
i am willing to bet the majority of us were not "planned"
life has surprises..you cant always control it, yet you should always accept responsibility when it is due.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Even if there were no plans to have children? Even if there was an understanding that you would not have children, but the woman later changes her mind and decides to carry to term? You are responsible for her choices?

Who else would be responsible? HER? haaaaaaaaaahahahaha. Women can't think on their own, don't be ridiculous.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T this contradicts your last reply to me in which you've affirmed (via a rhetorical question) that regardless of the circumstances, the parents must provide their child with food.

Erm... my reply was:

quote:

quote: Originally posted by Psy-T so our parents owe it to us to provide us with food no matter the circumstances? quote: Originally posted by Lira Well, they were quite aware of the fact that we're a consequence of a choice of theirs, aren't they?

The topic here is pre-natal development. We haven't extended this discussion to post-birth scenarios, so this reductio ad absurdum you used makes no sense as it ignores the context and takes my question itself as being context-free.

Before birth, our parents owe it to us to provide us with food no matter the circumstances (although they might fail to find food for their own survival, which might happen against their will).

___________________
Indiana Clones Upcoming Sets
[ I May Upload Something Someday ]

quote:

Originally posted by all-nite-freak yet you should always accept responsibility when it is due.

Totally. So the woman should accept her responsibility for having sex and abortion should be banned.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Erm... my reply was: The topic here is pre-natal development. We haven't extended this discussion to post-birth scenarios, so this reductio ad absurdum you used makes no sense as it ignores the context and takes my question itself as being context-free. Before birth, our parents owe it to us to provide us with food no matter the circumstances (although they might fail to find food for their own survival, which might happen against their will).

only before birth? i suppose you're answer is negative, in which case, i must ask - until when do they owe it to us?

p.s. as for the claim i took your words outside context as we were discussing pre-natal development exclusively - that's incorrect, since we have used the word child as well, and i'm willing to bet you don't believe responsibility ends at birth.

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T only before birth? i suppose you're answer is negative, in which case, i must ask - until when do they owe it to us?

Until we're able to do independently what they've been helping us with (e.g. they should provide food to a child that can't yet get food on his/her own).

___________________
Indiana Clones Upcoming Sets
[ I May Upload Something Someday ]

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Totally. So the woman should accept her responsibility for having sex and abortion should be banned.

I think that a lot of the abortion argument is based on whether a woman should have a right to choose or to be stuck with the consequence of her actions, but is also a fight to define the word responsibility. Taking responsibility, to me, does not necessarily equate to having the child, but instead refers to exercising a degree of choice in the matter - responsibility is conscious decision-making, not hard-locked traditional guidelines.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Until we're able to do independently what they've been helping us with (e.g. they should provide food to a child that can't yet get food on his/her own).

how about a child (or teenager) that refuses to forage for himself out of resentment for example?

___________________
People who own my ass: Citric Acid, Boomer187, Tribu, Sand Leaper,
Jackson, venomX, jamie, Renegade, Konjin, Akridrot, Miss Bliss.
Psy-T - Down The Rabbit Hole (400minute long acid set)

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Taking responsibility, to me, does not necessarily equate to having the child, but instead refers to exercising a degree of choice in the matter - responsibility is conscious decision-making, not hard-locked traditional guidelines.

The man and the woman both have a choice whether to have sex. Equality there.

The woman has the choice whether to carry the child to term. The man has the choice to -- ?

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Totally. So the woman should accept her responsibility for having sex and abortion should be banned.

i can see your logic but the debate still walks the tight rope.There are just too many variables.I for one am not a fan of abortion, yet would not deny the right.I do abhor when it is used as methodical birth control.At the same time in some circumstances it probably serves a greater purpose.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T how about a child (or teenager) that refuses to forage for himself out of resentment for example?

beat your kids until they learn.Hippies ruined that for us