quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews So what's the reason why the definition of the word has changed?

As per my first post in this thread (page 3):

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Originally posted by Domesticated I think that yes, originally, the term "progressive" was used to describe cutting edge music, especially the darker and breaksier sounds like nefardec was talking about.

The music I'm referring to above...as well as being "cutting edge", it was more subtle, dark and rhythmic than the gaudy, happy anthems at the time (i.e Strings Of Life, Good Life).

These days, that style of darker, subtle music is no longer cutting edge, however the other original element that defined it as progressive, its unique, subtler structure, still remains.

Hence why the definition of progressive has changed (in my eyes). Originally, it used to describe cutting edge music with subtle builds and great rhythm, which were completely new at the time, but after that type of music became commonplace (mid-late ninties), the only thing left to define it was the original unique structure it had.

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Mix archive | Melbourne club guide

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Originally posted by distant Now that I think of it, it's a lot like the term "garage", referring simply to what was being played at the Paradise Garage in New York. It doesn't mean anything, it just refers to a time and a place, and doesn't necessarily have ONE common denominator.

True, but now a lot of people will consider garage its own genre, with similar drum patterns, instruments, and song progression.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog By the way, plenty of EDM heads on here, but has anyone ever heard the term "progressive rock music"? Progressive rock, again, relates far more to structure than to the actual sound of the music. Long, droning chords, intricate melodies and slow layering of elements are the most common hallmark of prog rock, elements which are almost completely absent in normal rock music. Songs usually last about 6 or more minutes, which, again, is rare in normal rock music. Awesome band Tool is a perfect example of this genre. Applying this back to dance music, and exactly the same is true. Longer, more drawn out sections, more well conceived melodies etc. I guess you could say that "progressive" is another way of saying "deep". Pop music is superficial...it gets to the point straight away and makes no real effort to establish a mood. On the other hand, a progressive song is "deeper" in a fashion, and will take time to develop ideas and create a mood, or "put you in a trance" as John Digweed said. /rant

Progressive rock was about bands whos music expanded the rock genre with new influences by doing things musically that were unheard of or at least very unusual within rock. Rock critics talk about how bands like Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd, ELP and King Crimson (to name a few of the most renowned) progressed the rock genre in the late 60s and 70s.

It wasn't about a type of structure or sound in particular. It was a wide range of new influences brought to the table by different bands. Different bands did different things, that's why ELP sounded nothing like Pink Floyd and yet they were both considered progressive rock. There were compositions drawn out, droning and slow like you described and there was quirky stuff with abrupt transitions between sections, dramatic ups and downs and time signature changes thrown in you face every other minute.

A new approach to songwriting that strayed away from the at the time standard two-and-a-half-minute format, long pieces, influences from classical music and jazz, use of (in rock) unusual chords and chord progressions, intricate compositions, spotlight on increasingly skillfull performers, lyrics that dealt with new themes, new technology in music, unusual time signatures, use of multiple time signatures and time sigature changes, concept albums, spectacular live shows...

This type of things was what progressive rock bands had in common, things that in the context of 60s and 70s rock were progressive. Progressive is innovative, forward-thinking, out of the box, experimental. Then with time, things that would have been considered progressive within a genre when the term was coined become derivative, because as we move forward in time there is less and less new under the sun. But even if something like "progressive rock" (or "progressive house" for that matter) lives on merely as a legacy term, it still has nothing to do with your "slowly-evolving progression put you in a trance" bullshit.

Stop being so ignorant.

I got rid of my coffee grinder because when I ran it it wasn't sounding progressive enough.

from what i have read, the debate for "progressive" has been minimized to one of the two ...
1. moving the genre forward ... whatever genre that is. (original meaning)
2. refers to the structure/content of the song.

is this an accurate debate breakdown ??
if it isnt, critique it.

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Follow this thread, where the same topic is discussed on the DI board, it's basically what we have been saying all along...progressive describes the general format of the tune, it has nothing to do with a tune being "futuristic, experimental, or forward-thinking"


http://forums.di.fm/archive/index.php/t-62866.html

When I first started listening to EDM, what we all called techno or dance music at the time, I finally started listening to more house and trance, and trying to learn about the intricate nature of identifying different 'types' of music within the general umbrella of say : house or trance. This is where I started learning about progressive. At first, I actually thought progressive DID mean that it was progressive as in "different" or possibly able to bridge the gap to a future revolution of the musical norms....ie. progressive as marking "progress" in moving the musical movement forward, forward/progressive thinking. About 50 parties and clubnights and 2 years later and after seeing about a thousand more DJs perform and listening to countless DJ mixes, I finally had a real grasp what PROGRESSIVE was all about. I would actually now consider Progressive to be a newer term to describe this type of dance muisic that has been around for actually a long time. Leftfield, William Orbit, etc have been discussed, pick up one of the old Renaissance collections that S+D did...it's all progressive. I would consider that type of music to be more what is really PROGRESSIVE (alot of the Global Underground compilations...purely progressive) - usually the progressive house has more tribal, funk, percussion, drum elements in it, and progressive trance uses more synths and pattern sequencers, but the whole idea that it is progressive, again, basically means: slowly building up, little or no climax, fluid seamless progression to the next track that may be barely noticeable (ie. your typical club/lounge music).

The division between prog. trance and house today is now always made, much of it is simply called "Progressive" now.

But the "progressive" description is noted to clearly separate this type of music from ANTHEMIC trance or house, which is usually quick to build up, has a massive climax (or several of them), usually displays a rollercoaster of sonic emotion through the tune (progressive is more stable thoughout, not as "manic")

Armin, PVD, Tiesto, Above & Beyond, Ferry Corsten <--- "anthemic" trance (in their live sets)

Digweed, Hernan Cattaneo, Sander Kleinenberg, Danny Howells, Tenaglia <--- more "progressive-style" DJs in their mixes and sets

That's as clear as I can explain it...it just takes listening to alot of music and it will finally sink in...what "progressive" means, that is. hahah

Last edited by WardC on Aug-07-2007 at 15:06

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Originally posted by Beat Blog You can't define a genre by comparing two different things! That's like saying "listen to song x, then listen to song y, and you will understand what house music is" to someone who's never heard it before. Ok...explain what sounds you think are prevalent and defining in progressive house.

Your mistake is to assume that genre names are all powerful, and that because they're in common use they have a clear musical definition. Progressive does not refer to any specific sound any more than it does a specific structure, and it doesn't even refer to an all-encompassing idea of "progression". If anything, it refers to a specific movement within a specific genre.

Progressive house referred to artists making all kinds of inventive, genre-crossing house that often sounded very different but was all connected by the same scene and the same mentality. In this case, it can and was defined by comparison. This is why progressive is a term that becomes dated, just like things like "nu-trance" will become dated.

It's like the term "post-modern". Post-modern refers to all forward thinking art that comes after the modernist movement. Except that modernism is almost a century old now, so there's nothing modern about it anymore. If anything, post-modernism is the new modernism, because it's more modern. But both names stick as they are, because they refer to historical movements as opposed to describing the characteristics of the movement.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

I've heard the term "nu-trance" be thrown around a lot... what exactly is it?

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Originally posted by Mr Game+Watch I've heard the term "nu-trance" be thrown around a lot... what exactly is it?

Let's not even fucking go there, mate.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

whatever "progressive house" is, it died in 2003 and no longer exists.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog In regards to genres changing, when the rock band Kiss first started making music, they were known as being "heavy metal", but these days the idea is just laughable, next to real heavy mateal bands like Rammstein, Mudvayne or Sevendust.

What's laughable is calling Mudvayne or Sevendust heavy metal. What's downright shameful is calling Rammstein metal at all. (They're industrial, by the way.)

You're confusing the genre known as [progressive house] (aka boring music) with the original intent of the question, which is to ask what the word, [progressive] means in the context of music in general, that is, the meaning of [[progressive] house] or [[progressive] trance]. To determine the difference, note that [progressive house] can be shortened to [prog house], while when describing a style as progressive, one cannot say, [prog].

[Progressive house] is pretty much as you described: subtle transitions, dark moods, slow builds, boring and repetitive. Essentially, it tries to be proper trance without being proper trance. But just because [progressive house] means this doesn't mean [progressive] refers to the same concept.

[Progressive] in music has already been stated and restated in this thread countless times. It refers to furthering the genre, be it rock, trance, house, rap, what have you. It generally involves bringing something novel to the genre, or incorporating foreign elements. That bandwagon jumpers like to make the same shit as real progressive artists and steal the adjective doesn't change the original adjective's meaning at all.

Can we agree on this, or are you going to continue being contrary for the sake of self-aggrandisement?

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