quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r OMFG...are you serious? So if I go out, create a multimillion dollar company only to have some jerk in office tell me my success is not fair and 'redistribute' (aka rip off) my money to some f$#@ing slobs who has done nothing with their lives, that's somehow FAIR???. Wtf man!

Why would someone in your office tell you that?

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r You've already found the solution in your first line, "...a system where you have to earn your success". Yes people, it's called 'sweat equity' something everyone has but are unwilling to do - it's just easier to bitch and complain and have the government give you a handout. Why anyone would actually WANT the government to run your lives for you is really beyond financial comprehension. \ NOBODY has ever had their dreams or finanical asperations come to fruition via government alms... What's desparately needed is non-partisan, basic, personal financial education. How to budget, how to handle money, what is money, etc., etc.

Thank you for posting that, Fir3start3r!! I agree 110%!!

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r What's desparately needed is non-partisan, basic, personal financial education. How to budget, how to handle money, what is money, etc., etc.

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp Let me put this into a nice analogy. I'm an engineer, with benefits, overtime and expenses, i make around 95-100K per year CDN$. I pay a shit load of taxes, but that doesnt bother me at all, i still have loads of money kicking around to pay down debt, pay for my living expenses, save for a rainy day and blow on stupid things. The reason im not pissed about it is because when i got to mcdonalds, there is some shmuck there to serve me my fries, when i take my trash out in the morning, there is some guy that comes by in a truck to pick up my trash. There are hundreds of jobs that i would never want to do myself. People who work these jobs (minimum wage, shit jobs) need some kind of incentive to keep doing it. Not everyone is intelligent enough to do what i do, or be a doctor, or lawyer etc. I think it is socially responsible to make sure that our tax system allows these people to maintain a good standard of living while providing a service. Just because im make a good salary doesnt mean i deserve to be pushed to the front of the line at the hospital, nor does it mean that my kids should get first pick of schooling etc. education and healthcare are the two great equalizers in society. If you're well educated and healthy, your are on equal footing with everyone else weather you came with a silver spoon shoved up your ass or you came from nothing. I dont mind paying extra in tax to make sure people get fair and equal access to a good education and health care.

What's so wrong with altruism? You know, giving to charities and other organiztions that support the needy. Why shoud we all be mandated to give up what we have when it should be done according to our own free will?

If we could all learn to be a little less materialistic and a whole lot less selfish then this world would definitely be a much better place for everyone. If we could learn to do that then perhaps people might begin to be judged by the content of their character rather than the size of their wallets (like the way things are now.)

Of course our media, the advertising industry, and sports and entertainment industries play a big role in perpetuating our culture of greedy consumption but over time I think that trend could easily be reversed if people began to question it. But that's a different topic altogether.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r What's desparately needed is non-partisan, basic, personal financial education. How to budget, how to handle money, what is money, etc., etc.

In the words of the great Ron White.....


You can't fix stupid

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp Let me put this into a nice analogy. I'm an engineer, with benefits, overtime and expenses, i make around 95-100K per year CDN$. I pay a shit load of taxes, but that doesnt bother me at all, i still have loads of money kicking around to pay down debt, pay for my living expenses, save for a rainy day and blow on stupid things. The reason im not pissed about it is because when i got to mcdonalds, there is some shmuck there to serve me my fries, when i take my trash out in the morning, there is some guy that comes by in a truck to pick up my trash. There are hundreds of jobs that i would never want to do myself. People who work these jobs (minimum wage, shit jobs) need some kind of incentive to keep doing it. Not everyone is intelligent enough to do what i do, or be a doctor, or lawyer etc. I think it is socially responsible to make sure that our tax system allows these people to maintain a good standard of living while providing a service. Just because im make a good salary doesnt mean i deserve to be pushed to the front of the line at the hospital, nor does it mean that my kids should get first pick of schooling etc. education and healthcare are the two great equalizers in society. If you're well educated and healthy, your are on equal footing with everyone else weather you came with a silver spoon shoved up your ass or you came from nothing. I dont mind paying extra in tax to make sure people get fair and equal access to a good education and health care.

+1


i make more than that in USD (i pay more than USD 35K a year in taxes) and i'm happy to bear a greater burden if it means all will be better. i'm not for free give-aways, but health and education are not give aways. Also, providing better access to education and health care will ultimately result in less crime in american cities, something we all want. So much crime in the US is a result of poverty, which is a result of poor access to education and health care.

quote:

Originally posted by colonelcrisp In the words of the great Ron White..... You can't fix stupid

No, but you can definitely make great strides in educating it.

Some of the wealthiest people that I know aren't exactly paragons of intelligence and some actually seem quite the opposite. Most of them just kept their noses to the grindstone and were also just lucky enough to have certain opportunities present themselves at the right times.

I think financial success has a lot more to do with material drive, personal ambition, and material motivation than anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley

What's funny about what he said? I don't get it.

quote:

Originally posted by Kapedano This country has everything you need to get where you want.

Yeah, but I think that a lot of people want to be materially rewarded for doing little to nothing.

IOW, they want their Socialistic handouts.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Says me

You're hardly an authority. Perhaps you should re-investigate the definition of what an actual "right" is.

quote:

18. a just claim or title, whether legal, prescriptive, or moral: You have a right to say what you please.

So you say you have a claim or title to the services provided by the doctor at no cost? You're barking mad.

quote:

Why would there be no doctors? They are among the highest paid in every society on Earth and as such, there is no shortage of people wanting to become doctors

I explained it but perhaps you don't comprehend basic economics.

quote:

What the fuck are you on about? Why would doctors be paid a pittance? How many fucking times do I have to tell you how highly paid doctors are?

See above again. Why don't you tell me how well public defenders are paid in comparison to private attorneys and then perhaps you'll understand the comparison.

quote:

That's the point you moron, it's paid for out of people's taxes so it's free for everyone - from the poorest to the richest

Feisty one aren't you. I love debating you George--you talk yourself in circles and then resort to ad homenim when you can't make a valid point. There is no free lunch. No question our public education system needs improvement but you seem to think that the only way to accomplish this is to throw more money at the problem and hope it fixes itself. It takes more than just tax money to make a broken system work. It takes willing participants with innovative solutions and a desire to see the system improve. As I suggested above, there is a massive amount of political opposition to many proposals that have been made to attempt to improve the public education system here because not many of the public educators want to be held to any standard--they would rather sit in their cushy government job and collect a pension while the youth of America suffer and fail to get a proper education. Not to mention how much of a child's eduction is the responsibility of the parents. You can't just extort more and more money from someone because they are "rich" in your eyes and expect the problem will magically be solved. What do you plan to do with all of your additional tax dollars for education? Fill the vending machines with Smartwater? Bwahahah--I kill me. But seriously folks.

quote:

Have you ever been outside of America? Are you aware that there exists a whole world beyond your borders? Free health care and free education work exceptionally well in other countries so why can't it work in the richest nation?

Yes I have and I never realized the hellhole I live in until you just told me how much it sucks here.

quote:

Yet you spend every post defending them and arguing that they should contribute less proportionally to society...

That is simply intellectually dishonest. The vast majority of the tax burden already rests squarely on the shoulders of the top 5-10% of income earners in the country while the bottom 30%+ pay no income tax at all.

quote:

But why do you assume that you'll fall into the bracket that I think should pay more taxes? If you're that well off then you're greedy, plain and simple...

It has nothing to do with what bracket I think I'll end up in, it's what I think is an adequate system. I think lower taxes for everyone is better. If the government can't function on what it brings in, then the government needs to shrink. I have my own obligations and ambitions and I don't need some twit from across the pond telling me to what degree I'm "rich" or "greedy" or am not paying my "fair" share.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka I think lower taxes for everyone is better. If the government can't function on what it brings in, then the government needs to shrink. I have my own obligations and ambitions and I don't need some twit from across the pond telling me to what degree I'm "rich" or "greedy" or am not paying my "fair" share.

that begs the question of how much does the government need to function properly. you're assuming that the current income is an amount sufficient to run government. Shouldn't the amount necessary to fund government be determined before the proper tax allocation? It makes no sense to limit necessary government functions by some arbitrary tax income that you say is proper. If tax income was determined prior to the cost of necessary government expenditures then it is likely that there would be a shortfall because the nature of government is to match income with expense.

Last edited by jerZ07002 on Oct-27-2008 at 22:44