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Originally posted by Zild It's OK. Those plants didn't have a free will.

Funny you say that since our "free will" only exists because we are being farmed by the plants for soil and carbon dioxide.

They've got 3.5 billion years of evolution on us and we actually don't realize yet that they're the masters of this planet.

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Originally posted by RJT It's funny you post this, because it basically summarizes nicely how I would describe my "spiritual" side. I would definitely describe myself in some sense as a "materialist", or an "atomist", who genuinely believes all that exists is matter and that the only gratification one can expect from an "afterlife" is to return themselves back to the fundamental elements of existence. It's also why I want to be cremated and have a tree planted in my ashes. Well, that, and the fact that I'm a filthy, stinking hippie at heart.

I basically feel the same way, except I don't feel that the 'atom' is anything but a perceived phemonenon.


I believe there is no difference between the 'spirit' and 'matter'. This quote from Inayat Khan summarizes:

quote:

What is spirit and what is matter? The difference between spirit and matter is like the difference between water and ice: frozen water is ice and melted ice is water. It is spirit in its denseness which we call matter; it is matter in its fineness which may be called spirit. Once a materialist said to me, 'I do not believe in any spirit or soul or hereafter. I believe in eternal matter.' I said to him, 'Your belief is not very different from mine, only that which you call eternal matter I call spirit; it is a difference in terms. There is nothing to dispute about because we both believe in eternity; and so long as we meet in eternity, what difference does it make, if the one calls it matter, and the other calls it spirit? It is one life from beginning to end.'

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Originally posted by Saka If religion isn't in this thread then why are we talking about souls?

i didn't say religion wasn't in this thread, i simply stated that i wasnt trying to bash religion, considering in many of my threads thats exactly what im trying to do.

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Originally posted by Saka And evolution isn't irrefutable. That's why it is the 'theory' of evolution.

if you really mean this:

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles A theory has to be potentially "refutable" in order to be scientific. Once you make predictions about contingent events, which is what science does, you open up the possibility that your theory could be refuted if things turn out differently than you expect.

then i would agree. but if you meant something else, you're talking out of your ass.

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Originally posted by nefardec I basically feel the same way, except I don't feel that the 'atom' is anything but a perceived phemonenon. I believe there is no difference between the 'spirit' and 'matter'. This quote from Inayat Khan summarizes:

I should be clear that when I use the term "atomism" I'm not talking about the scientific definition of an atom, but rather the idea of something that is irreducible - whatever that may be.

In that sense I think we're very much on the same page in the sense that whatever you call it, "spirit", "atom", etc.

I find myself very much inspired by the works of Lucretius, a philosopher often glossed over as simply one of the "Pre-Socratics" - but whose ideas (IMO) are far more developed than much of academia give him credit for, or maybe rather than "more developed", at least more clear in their simplicity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucretius

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Nature_of_Things

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last minute disco dot net

I thought it'd be nice to post in here seeing that I do share alot of similiarities with a few of you. I am currently sheltered under the stoic school of thought established by zeno. In my opinion, our soul, our entity & beign can be analyzed under a mathematical lense (which leads to more complicated theories of metaphysics), that which might not be all that suitable to dwell in this thread. I believe in being one with nature, I believe all things- good & evil are rooted from the same nature or force that we evolved from, good and evil are natural to all living beigns & they all carry divinity, even if on the outside they might come off as unattractive or unappealing. I believe that a soul can grow if it is fed upon by living our lives based on virtues, not pleasure.

Last edited by winston on Dec-06-2008 at 05:43