Ouote from Rahm Emanuel, Obama's Chief of Staff.

"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. What I mean by that is it's an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before. This is an opportunity. What used to be long-term problems -- be they in the health care area, energy area, education area, fiscal area, tax area, regulatory reform area -- things that we had postponed for too long that were long-term are now immediate and must be dealt with. And this crisis provides the opportunity for us, as I would say, the opportunity to do things that you could not do before."

This is why there is such a rush.

So this is change? Sounds like politics as usual.

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"Discipline is what the world needs today and etiquette, you know. For one of the noblest things a man can do is to do the best he can." Prince Far I

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen agreed. All I'm saying is the the left still needs to spend less on wasteful projects. They can put HALF the amount of this bill directly where it should go and be as effective. They should take a few months to figure out exactly where that should be. I bet they get more support from both the public, economists, and republicans. And have a much better chance for success. Since all the democrats will all do just as Obama says, and all the happy igorant Obama lovers think he can do no wrong, well then lets just shove it down their throats in just 2 weeks, unfinished and unread, and write the 787 billion dollar check.

I read all 1400 pages the other night. Really isn't that hard.

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

quote:

Originally posted by djjoshuaallen The fact is a stimulus could have been written with half of the dollar amount of this one, AND have been just as effective.

no that is not a fact, unless of course you're ignoring the opinion of all the nation's leading economists who agree that the size and scope of the stimulus fits the size and scope of the crisis. if you have a fire that takes 10 gallons to put out and you only bring 5, then you haven't really solved anything. was the bill rushed? well 240,000 jobs were lost in october, 580,000 were lost in november, another 580,000 were lost in december and by the time january hit yet another 600,000 jobs were gone. and the market is still tanking hard. if you want to stare at a rug fire and think about what the best way to put it out is, you may end up looking at a house fire before you've even reached for anything.

josh and dave, i realize the democratic party and everything it does triggers an automatic gag reflex in you whereby you must take the opposition stance and rationalize why or how it could be wrong, but obama doesn't fit into the brand of american politics you grew up with. his goal is to solve this thing, not press it through the filter of his party's ideology and see what sticks. he has studied the problem far more in-depth than either of you. he's tracked down and discussed it with people far smarter than any of us. he's been doing this since before he became president. the people who wrote this bill in congress have done the same. the first thing i want to say is props to obama for understanding the constitution and allowing congress to write the bill rather than giving them one of his own to earmark. second, as was mentioned, all those line items you're waving the flag at is marginal. many of them are aimed at refunding institutions that were unfunded and underfunded under bush. all the democrats genuinely want a full economic recovery because it would genuinely validate their ascension to power. all the republicans genuinely want to trigger failure under democratic rule (both political and economic) because it would prove that the democrats don't know what they're doing either. of course they will tell you everything the democrats do will make the sky fall so you come running to them out of fear. that's called the inside game. that's all the the republican party has become since the rise of lee atwater. the party is good at nothing but attacking, politicizing and fearmongering. they thrive on making americans more ignorant. it grows their base. that's why i really don't understand why young, otherwise bright people support the republican party. if you are a fiscal conservative, you are not republican. although if you didn't know that supply-side economics, flat tax, and everything else reagan stood for was a big joke, or lie, no more of a joke... then i guess i'm not surprised you buy their lip service.

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I don't understand all the bickering over the stimulus. Obama just got into office less than a month ago so give the process a chance to work.

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH no that is not a fact, unless of course you're ignoring the opinion of all the nation's leading economists who agree that the size and scope of the stimulus fits the size and scope of the crisis. if you have a fire that takes 10 gallons to put out and you only bring 5, then you haven't really solved anything. was the bill rushed? well 240,000 jobs were lost in october, 580,000 were lost in november, another 580,000 were lost in december and by the time january hit yet another 600,000 jobs were gone. and the market is still tanking hard. if you want to stare at a rug fire and think about what the best way to put it out is, you may end up looking at a house fire before you've even reached for anything. josh and dave, i realize the democratic party and everything it does triggers an automatic gag reflex in you whereby you must take the opposition stance and rationalize why or how it could be wrong, but obama doesn't fit into the brand of american politics you grew up with. his goal is to solve this thing, not press it through the filter of his party's ideology and see what sticks. he has studied the problem far more in-depth than either of you. he's tracked down and discussed it with people far smarter than any of us. he's been doing this since before he became president. the people who wrote this bill in congress have done the same. the first thing i want to say is props to obama for understanding the constitution and allowing congress to write the bill rather than giving them one of his own to earmark. second, as was mentioned, all those line items you're waving the flag at is marginal. many of them are aimed at refunding institutions that were unfunded and underfunded under bush. all the democrats genuinely want a full economic recovery because it would genuinely validate their ascension to power. all the republicans genuinely want to trigger failure under democratic rule (both political and economic) because it would prove that the democrats don't know what they're doing either. of course they will tell you everything the democrats do will make the sky fall so you come running to them out of fear. that's called the inside game. that's all the the republican party has become since the rise of lee atwater. the party is good at nothing but attacking, politicizing and fearmongering. they thrive on making americans more ignorant. it grows their base. that's why i really don't understand why young, otherwise bright people support the republican party. if you are a fiscal conservative, you are not republican. although if you didn't know that supply-side economics, flat tax, and everything else reagan stood for was a big joke, or lie, no more of a joke... then i guess i'm not surprised you buy their lip service.

PARAGRAPHS ARE YOUR FRIEND!

quote:

Originally posted by Lomeli PARAGRAPHS ARE YOUR FRIEND!

It's called proof by verbosity.

Ancient technique.

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"Discipline is what the world needs today and etiquette, you know. For one of the noblest things a man can do is to do the best he can." Prince Far I

quote:

Originally posted by Hypersky I don't understand all the bickering over the stimulus. Obama just got into office less than a month ago so give the process a chance to work.

Like I said, it's funny to see everyone all up in arms and concerned about government spending all of a sudden.


Really funny...

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Like I said, it's funny to see republicans and people who dislike obama all up in arms and concerned about government spending all of a sudden. Really funny...

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Eyad Allayla - drums cubana - di.fm - tribal house channel - twisted_techy_hooks

Yeah that works too.

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

quote:

Originally posted by R!CH that's why i really don't understand why young, otherwise bright people support the republican party. if you are a fiscal conservative, you are not republican.

Exactly, I have never once claimed to be a republican, nor am I registered as one. Hardly do I ever vote like one either. I voted for Al Gore in 2000, and Ralph Nadar in 08. Just because I dont support Obama and speak my mind regarding that doesnt make me a republican.

Everybody on TA just brands me that because I disagree with THEM, and they claim to be a democrat. According to you all, if you disagree that Obama is going to change the world then that makes you a republican. Every time I am critical of Obama, a bush bashing reponse is the first to come. How is being critical of Obama, at the same time being supportive of Bush? Its your black and white political views, and the two party political trap you are all caught in that causes us to disagree, its working to perfection in favor of the democrats in this instance.

Because I think Obama got it wrong, doesnt force me to run scared to republcians for help. I believe that most in washington are doing a shitty job outside of a few moderates that are helpless anyway. I find it hard for truthful, loyal, forward thinking politicians to have any success in american politics as long as the two party system prevails.

Last edited by djjoshuaallen on Feb-17-2009 at 19:40

quote:

Originally posted by starboy

All these posts, and sadly you have provided nothing to this thread outside of biased party bashing and mockery, absent of any comprehensive thinking or ideas.

Last edited by djjoshuaallen on Feb-17-2009 at 19:42