no way. religion (or at least a belief in god or the unknowable) will be around as long as we are. its hard-wired into our brain apparently (arbiter can teach you more about that).

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A hundred years is a long time.

It's been about 130 since light bulbs were invented, and 150 since the combustion engine.

Think of how far we've come in that time. Planes, computers, spacecraft, medicine. Think of how differently people think now. Think of what the common man knows now compared to then.

People in 1850 still believed in witchcraft and alchemy. The human race travels extremely fast. I have no doubt that when people look back on the year 2000, they will see our religious beliefs in the same light that we see the foolish people who believed in witchcraft.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no way. religion (or at least a belief in god or the unknowable) will be around as long as we are. its hard-wired into our brain apparently (arbiter can teach you more about that).

Not this brain, or yours for that matter.

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100 years isn't that long. It's shorter than a few people's lifetime, and its possible with advances in medicine we may get to see 2100 I don't see billions of people giving up their faith.

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Originally posted by Domesticated A hundred years is a long time. It's been about 130 since light bulbs were invented, and 150 since the combustion engine. Think of how far we've come in that time. Planes, computers, spacecraft, medicine. Think of how differently people think now. Think of what the common man knows now compared to then. People in 1850 still believed in witchcraft and alchemy. The human race travels extremely fast. I have no doubt that when people look back on the year 2000, they will see our religious beliefs in the same light that we see the foolish people who believed in witchcraft.

but established religion is at least what, 6000 years old? and belief in the spiritual etc is as old as man himself. i just dont share your optimism. christianity is ~2000 years old and shows absolutely no sign of abating. given that the existence of god is neither provable nor disprovable, the same questions concerning us today will be exactly the same ones being questioned in another 2000 years.

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Originally posted by Domesticated Not this brain, or yours for that matter.

well, i doubt our brains are any different to anybody else's, but as with any instinct, reason and free will can overide 'programming'.

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Originally posted by Domesticated I think that in another hundred or so years, religion will be almost dead.

Or perhaps quite the opposite.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN but established religion is at least what, 6000 years old? and belief in the spiritual etc is as old as man himself. i just dont share your optimism. christianity is ~2000 years old and shows absolutely no sign of abating. given that the existence of god is neither provable nor disprovable, the same questions concerning us today will be exactly the same ones being questioned in another 2000 years.

Things are accelerating. Most of the things that challenge religion have come about at the end of those 6,000 years. I'm not sure religion will die out, but it might become less and less popular.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Or perhaps quite the opposite.

Dead almost be will religion?

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN but established religion is at least what, 6000 years old? and belief in the spiritual etc is as old as man himself. i just dont share your optimism. christianity is ~2000 years old and shows absolutely no sign of abating. given that the existence of god is neither provable nor disprovable, the same questions concerning us today will be exactly the same ones being questioned in another 2000 years.

True, but for a long time we were in the "dark ages", where people were naive and required religion to explain how shitty their lives were. Now, I think people ponder a lot less about themselves and their family; they listen to the radio, they buy clothes, they lust after products. They're too tied up in society and themselves to consider the implications of their actions or any spirituality the way people did 200 years ago.

Most young people don't seem to have the patience or the time for religion, and this is why I think it's fading fast. Many people in their mid-30s have also rejected religion to an even greater degree than their parents did in the '70s, and this is important because they're the people who are having children now, and often choosing not to bring them up in a religious environment, meaning religion's grip is weakened with each new generation.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN well, i doubt our brains are any different to anybody else's, but as with any instinct, reason and free will can overide 'programming'.

No, our brains are completely different to everyone else's; they actually work. You should know that by now.

Secondly, while it may have been "proved" that religion is hard-wired, I still don't believe that. I think religion is something you acquire from birth, like speech. Can you really tell me that if a baby was raised in a completely silent environment until age 10, it would start speaking spontaneously?

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Last edited by Domesticated on Feb-19-2009 at 03:06

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Things are accelerating. Most of the things that challenge religion have come about at the end of those 6,000 years. I'm not sure religion will die out, but it might become less and less popular.

perhaps, but like i said im just not that optimistic.

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quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Or perhaps quite the opposite.

If you're going to make a statement like that, explain.

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quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Secondly, while it may have been "proved" that religion is hard-wired, I still don't believe that. I think religion is something you acquire from birth, like speech. Can you really tell me that if a baby was raised in a completely silent environment until age 10, it would start speaking spontaneously?

gotta rush, but i just wanted to point out that you are horribly wrong when it comes to speech/language, at least as far as chomsky and the entire field of linguistics are concerned. i like your work, but chomsky > you

im sure lira could post some on the topic, its not something im that familair with.

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In many ways, we could be considered "hard-wired" to respond positively to many of the social components which surround religious ceremonies and belief systems. They are confirmational of both physiological techniques we originally utilized to form social networks in the first place as well as social responses in no mild form of hysteria. Religion is first and foremost, a meme.

It is because of this I agree with pkc - religion will not die. Notwithstanding semantical arguments on just what is meant by "religion" in the first place, history thusfar has indicated that religions quite often "die" off; the rituals may change, but the religion never truly goes away.

It seems to me that the people most willing to kill and to die would quite readily do so for their beliefs. Does our modern competence serve itself by fusing the ideals of peace and reason in the face of an enemy who does not sway to logic, but to fictional beings insecure with their omnipotence? What I am saying is that religion is becoming, more and more, quite poised to kill the world if it doesn't convert. And technology has finally given those frothing throngs a way to do so.

//P.S. Jews did 9/11.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.