It's up to the DJ to do the job any way they see fit. People can vote with their feet.

DJs choice on the tracks.
DJs choice on the equipment.

Nothing wrong with using computers to play music. Why not, lots of it was made by a guy sitting at a desk clicking a mouse.

"I went to a garden party to reminisce with my old friends
A chance to share old memories and play our songs again
When I got to the garden party, they all knew my name
No one recognized me, I didn't look the same

But it's all right now, I've learned my lesson well.
You see, you can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself ..."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_exY9ptMbA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_Party_(Rick_Nelson_song)

Personally I think laptop sets (ableton or otherwise) just don;t stand up to CDJ's (or especially vinyl) - I've said it a number of times on here so rather than retype I'll just copy and paste: (apologies in advance for the long post )

About 2/3 years ago when the whole DVS thing exploded, I posted in various threads about how the use of the laptop detracted from the DJ'ing performance, and how I feel that from laptops sets that I've done and witnessed vs CDJ sets, the night, the music , the mixing (etc.) was so much better. Loads of people argued saying laptops don't detract from the performance and how there are so much more possibilities with laptop (blah blah blah) and now people seem to be saying the same thing.

Granted, they let you have a much larger library of tracks at your figertips and some of the features are nice but I have still never seen a laptop set that was better than even a mediocre CDJ ot Vinyl set.

I've always noticed that gigs l've witnessed or done with a laptop (not out of choice) are susub par compared to cdj or vinyl sets. There is something about a dj having to look at a computer screen that destroys the dj performance part of it and detracts from the feeling of the set, and again, therefore the performance. For the dj's that are incredibly passive when djing, it doesn't matter as much but is still noticeable. That staring at the screen just removes them from the crowd, and it shows.

Also, on another note, I WOULD NEVER just bring a laptop and DVS system for a gig - you always have to take CD's anyway in case there is a problem so why bother with a laptop in the first place. Yeah don't get me wrong, dvs have their benefits but even serato isn't stable 100% of the time and when you're getting paid to play you just can't take that risk IMO. The only system I've used intesively is serato and even that has gone down ocasionally. Combine that with the extra performance aspects of CD's and that's why I prefer (along with many others now it seems) tactile CD or vinyl djing.

It's more fluid and in touch with the performance that makes all the difference in the world.

It's not about the "visual impact" at all, it's the fact that I feel and have witnessed that when a DJ that is looking at a screen, rather than just working the decks/mixer, they are not as connected to music or crowds as one who isn't. It's not about how they look to a crowd but how they interact with the music, and therefore how that music affects the crowd. That's all that matters as far as I'm concerned. It;s the fact that as a dj, you have to look at a screen, which completely disconnects you from the club, the crowd - everything else.

What I'm saying is, It's got nothing to do with how they look when using a laptop, it's that using a laptop detracts from their performance as a DJ and negatively affects the musical performance.

Not that I'm a big fan or anything, but I remember Roger Sanchez putting it well:

"Dj'ing is something I can't recreate in the studio - it's like I'm a conduit for the energy of the crowd and I feed off that energy, something I can't do elsewhere" (or something to that effect anyway).

I'm not slamming anyone who uses a DVS - sometimes it's useful and sounds great, but I'd prefer to play with CD's or vinyl anyday, and whenever I do it's a better performance. Something about that tactile relationship while DJing makes the mixing, the music and my connection to the music better. I'm just saying I've noticed this for a long time in other people and have even done blind tests - it's always the CDJ or Vinyl sets I prefer.

I'll gibve you an exact example - everytime I've ever heard Carl Cox play, he plays so much better when he leaves the laptop out. I've got at least 5 points of references for this in 3 different countries/clubs. So maybe that's just one DJ that gives a better performance (not visually but musically), but again seeing a lot of DJ's over the years, the "hands on" sets are always better and as I speak to more people about this I get more people concurring.

I think vinyl will still be around for some time, it's versatile and it feels great to use. Ultimately laptop dj'ing will take over, look at the big clubs these days. You have more flexability with the sound your mixing and you can make something totally unique! So, vinyl feels great and you can do some cool stuff with it, but with a laptop, the only limit to what you can do is your imagination.........if you have good equipment and software emulation that is!

ciao!

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I don think you can use analogies like belt drive turntables being outdated. There was a NEED for direct drive, it fucking hampered your starts and cues, its not like you need other shit, unless youre into production and want to do more live aspects sure. but for traditional dj sets its almost a joke. with cdjs you got everything you need really for a DJ set, unless everyone starts producing live i dont see much reason for it. that being said, do what you enjoy.

today's popularity of "producing live" really shows the shallowness of today's electronic music. just think about it... you either produce a quality production in a studio environment or you play a quality production out in the public

turntabels

Is there really that much of a difference between looking at a laptop, the mixer that the DJ uses, the decks or a record crate or cd wallet?

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quote:

Originally posted by Teezdalien Is there really that much of a difference between looking at a laptop, the mixer that the DJ uses, the decks or a record crate or cd wallet?

I agree with what RANN said.

and yea.. in my opinion there's definitely a difference between a dj staring at the laptop compared to a mixer, decks or even looking through the cd case.. (not that I'm going against dj's using laptop.)

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quote:

Originally posted by Teezdalien Is there really that much of a difference between looking at a laptop, the mixer that the DJ uses, the decks or a record crate or cd wallet?

I can't really articulate it any better than in my previous post but to me, with the many experiences I've had, from a DJ's perpective as well as a punter, I feel that the use of a laptop detracts from the musical performance of the DJ.

I've seen it time and time again. That second or so looking at the screen removes the DJ from the crowd and that IMO, however small, seems to make a big difference in what they do and how they perform. Some of the life is gone. I can't say it any other way becuase I've seen it.

With CDJ's/Truntables and a wallet, it's all tactile and hands on.

Don't get me wrong, some laptop sets are awesome but IME, the ones without have been just noticeably better.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I can't really articulate it any better than in my previous post but to me, with the many experiences I've had, from a DJ's perpective as well as a punter, I feel that the use of a laptop detracts from the musical performance of the DJ. I've seen it time and time again. That second or so looking at the screen removes the DJ from the crowd and that IMO, however small, seems to make a big difference in what they do and how they perform. Some of the life is gone. I can't say it any other way becuase I've seen it. With CDJ's/Truntables and a wallet, it's all tactile and hands on. Don't get me wrong, some laptop sets are awesome but IME, the ones without have been just noticeably better.

Fair enough. I suppose it does depend on the DJ too. It's really lame if they are focused on the screen most of the time. I try not to look at the screen as much as possible. And you're right in that with the mixer/decks/crate/wallet, the audience can clearly see what is happening.(most of the time!)

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not sure if this was said prior, as i dont feel like flipping through pages of replies but...

im going to play devil's advocate for a little bit...if laptop djs are in a sense "seperated" from the crowd, what about those djs who just stand there playing vinyl/cds and are a complete bore to watch? we've all seen them at some point. just because they are looking through a vinyl case or cd booklet, does it make them "closer" to the crowd?

compare that to a laptop dj who is rocking out like a tweaker on a cleaning binge and getting into everything he/she does. performance wise, the laptop dj would probably be more "closer" to the crowd that said vinyl/cd dj even if they are "seperated" by a laptop.