Oh man, You bet i love the reverb @ ralphie

To be fair, the reason why software will not -any time soon - emulate ahrdware is because software works with basic numbers, 1' and 0's...hard ware synths actually manipulate energy [electrical] and the neuancses [spelling?] will not be emulateable. In the future however software will certainly get the sound close enough that it won't even matter if its hardware or not because it will be the same sound.

What is requires is seeing how hardware synths [not Vas btw] manipulate electricity, and put that in a sensible code.

And if you want to get technically, Joes 303 will not sound exactly the same as Jacks 303...but that is a whole nother arguement.

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quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir To be fair, the reason why software will not -any time soon - emulate ahrdware is because software works with basic numbers, 1' and 0's...hard ware synths actually manipulate energy [electrical] and the neuancses [spelling?] will not be emulateable. In the future however software will certainly get the sound close enough that it won't even matter if its hardware or not because it will be the same sound.

Ehm.. a Virtual Analog synth is software in a hardware box.
But it just sounds better because they are better made synths, not because they come in a hardware box.
Am i really the only one getting this ?

maybe u mean analog synths..

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there's one thing we will all agree about though.

Arturia in terms of sound will never deliver something that's as rich and dynamic as the real piece with their software "emulations", same goes for all companies emulating existing hardware.

This is truly something I've never believed in myself, although those emulations probably sound great (had the minimoog v myself and it sounded great for the price, to an extent though).

That said, I think that's the problem with softsynths nowadays. Too many features, not enough personality. Then companies like waves are trying to sell us (at the highest price) emulations of classic hardware, blablabla...

I'm pretty much confident that the times will change though.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lolo there's one thing we will all agree about though. Arturia in terms of sound will never deliver something that's as rich and dynamic as the real piece with their software "emulations", same goes for all companies emulating existing hardware. This is truly something I've never believed in myself, although those emulations probably sound great (had the minimoog v myself and it sounded great for the price, to an extent though). That said, I think that's the problem with softsynths nowadays. Too many features, not enough personality. Then companies like waves are trying to sell us (at the highest price) emulations of classic hardware, blablabla... I'm pretty much confident that the times will change though.

What are the reasons you maintain a software studio versus going with all hardware? As an experienced producer, I think your insight into this question would be invaluable for us and the rest of the board.

hardware is way too expensive, when your record midi notes and play them back through hardware synths timing is not perfect, and there's no PDC. Tried it even with recent synths, still the same. I need to manually time-correct everything. Besides that, the way I program synths and stuff is much more intuitive on a computer screen. With hardware synths I mostly find myself lost, except when the synthesis is subtractive only, as it's dead simple to program.

There's only one exception, that's the Virus Ti, because of its Integration as an external dsp-driven plugin. Another one is the plugiator, but as I haven't had any of these, I won't talk about them. All hardware I have left is this recently acquired X-station 49 as it's quite handy.

You guys have much more hardware than I do. At times I even get jealous, because I surely would looove to have a virus Ti, a jd800 and I miss my JV0180 (if only they did a software version of it!!!!). These are hard times for full-time musicians, though. But things change that quickly nowadays.

One thing is sure, if you want a rounded and dynamic moog sound, don't rely on "emulation" plug-ins and check eBay for an original 70's model. Same goes for vintage synths in general.

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Holy Shit this thread blew up.

So which camp is winning at this point? Hardware Software?

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Last edited by Kismet7 on Feb-25-2009 at 10:13

quote:

hardware synths timing is not perfect, and there's no PDC

Cubase has external instrument delay compensation. I use a mides8 midi interface with cubase and the timing is spot on, even when using multiple hardware synths at once. Do no other sequencers support this? Its a great feauture!

To the person who mentioned two 303s sounding different, thats spot on. Any two 303s will sound somewhat different. Two 70s minimoogs wont sound exactly the same. Software 303s sound somewhat similar to the real thing its when you distort them that the software fails miserably.

It IS possible to exactly recreate the hardware va sound in software vst, look at the virus powercore and tdm. Smaller vst software companies havn't got the same money, resources and programmers as bigger companies like access etc. this is why vsts arn't always up to par with hardware va synths.

People seem to have an obsession with vintage analogue equipment at the moment, which is why lots of companies are bringing out emulations. The only ones i like are UAD. Not because they sound like the original pieces they are emulating, but because they give me a wide variety of different tones and sound shaping options at a reasonable price.

Arturia stuff is alright but sounds far from the original pieces they are emulating. Comparing their ARP 2600 to my odyssey is a joke. They havn't captured the ARP sound at all. But it is a good plugin in its own right.

They could have sold all their plugins with different interfaces and called them "original" plugins and nobody would know that they are emulating the boards they claim, although they wouldn't sell half as many!

To put it clearly, software companies are emulating vintage analogue pieces becuase at this time they are selling very very well. People think that just because a piece of software has got the moog name, it will blow their socks off. Now take away the branding and pretty interface and people wouldn't rave about these plugins half as much! People use their eyes too much rather than their ears.

The MIDEX 8 rocks, I've got one too.
Also the Virus TI via USB is sample accurate as well.

I would say that outboard via midi (MIDEX-8) is as accurate as VSTi's
when i map my JOMOX kick over a battery kick, I've got no significant variation on flange and i can tune both VERY tight.

I now have got my ideal setup: outboard gear mixed ITB
current "gearlist" as you can see a healthy mix of outboard and VSTi's all selected on distinct characteristics.... aimed at both production and mastering

Synths:
- Moog Voyager Electric Blue
- Moog Little Phatty
- Access Virus TI Desktop
- JOMOX XBASE-999
- Waldorf Blofeld
- Elektron Machinedrum SPS1 MKII-UW

DAW:
- Novation Remote SL61
- 2x Steinberg MR816x
- SSL Duende PCIe
- Powercore X8
- Steinberg MIDEX 8
- Lexicon MX200 (via spdif)
- Mackie MCU Universal PRO
- Mackie MCU Universal Extender
- Mackie HR824 MK2 Monitors
- AKG-701 Headphones
- SPL Phonitor
- SPL Volume2
- Sennheiser mic.

Software:
- Cubase 4.5 (ordered 5)
- Wavelab 6.0
- REFX NEXUS2 + XP Drums & XP Dance III
- Tone2 Gladiator 2
- Tone2 WarmVerb
- Barricade Pro
- SSL X-Comp
- SSL X-EQ
- SSL Drumstrip
- TC Electronic TAP Factory
- Novation V-Station
- Novation BassStation
- Native Instruments KORE2
- Native Instruments Komplete 5
- Sonnox Dynamics Powercore
- Sonnox EQ Powercore

PA:
- 2x Mackie SRM-450 MK2 Monitors
- 1x Mackie SWA-1505 Subwoofer
- Mackie D.4 Pro Firewire Mixer
- NUMARK DMC2
- NUMARK CD35

bottom line: if you want to work without compromise, you need both, a hybrid setup based upon where you want to go and use the applicable tool (either ITB or OTB) to take you there....

life is about choice
HW <> SW
Money <> No money
the " right" sound <> workflow
etc. etc....

but always remember: hardware is no freepass to success!.........

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Last edited by Raphie on Feb-25-2009 at 14:27

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie little bit of outboard , no compression, EQ or FX, get your Arturia out and impress me.....[[ LINK REMOVED ]] note the thickness and edge in the low end and the curve of the filter....

LOL a lot of people are pre-occupied with an opininon, while only 3 people actually bothered to listen......

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Esoteric sound for the discerning ear

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie but always remember: hardware is to freepass to success!.........

With so many people working (and releasing music made) in the box only I think it's been proven that you don't need hardware at all. And hardware doesn't necessarily make it easier unless it fits in your workflow. I owned a couple of hardware synths between 2002 and now and got rid of most of them because at the time it was hard to integrate them in the in-the-box workflow, which is way easier now. However you stil need to be able to work differently to actually have any benifit from hardware.

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quote:

If less is more think about how much more more would be. -Frasier

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller With so many people working (and releasing music made) in the box only I think it's been proven that you don't need hardware at all. And hardware doesn't necessarily make it easier unless it fits in your workflow. I owned a couple of hardware synths between 2002 and now and got rid of most of them because at the time it was hard to integrate them in the in-the-box workflow, which is way easier now. However you stil need to be able to work differently to actually have any benifit from hardware.

I think he meant to say "hardware is no free pass to success".