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djjoshuaallen
livin the dream



Registered: May 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA

these are the shananagans that come to pass when you have government trying to bud into private companies. especially when our government is as incompetant as our legislature is at the moment

Old Post Mar-20-2009 22:29  United States
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jerZ07002
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Dec 2006
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
More good news: the CBO now says that Obama's policies will lead to deficits much worse than anticipated.



http://www.usatoday.com/news/washin...it_N.htm?csp=34

... and I remember the outrageously outrageous outrage at Bush's $400 billion deficit spending.


the way krypton can turn almost any thread into an anti-iraq war tirade, you are equally skilled at raising points about obama that are mostly tangential (if at all relevant) to the main issues in the thread.

I'm not happy about 10 trillion in deficit spending over 10 years, but that's not the point of the thread.

Since it appears you selectively read the portions that support your personal views, here are a few quotes from that article for your reading pleasure. First, this quote discusses the main reason for the huge deficit:

quote:

The worsening economy is responsible for the even deeper fiscal mess inherited by Obama. As an illustration, CBO says the deficit for the current budget year, which began Oct. 1, will top $1.8 trillion, $93 billion more than foreseen by the White House. That would equal 13% of GDP, a level not seen since World War II.

The 2009 deficit, fueled by the $700 billion Wall Street bailout and diving tax revenues stemming from the worsening recession, is four times the previous $459 billion record set just last year.


Here's a quote about the reliability of long term projections:

quote:


Long-term deficit predictions have proven notoriously fickle — George W. Bush inherited flawed projections of a 10-year, $5.6 trillion surplus and instead produced record deficits — and if the economy outperforms CBO's expectations, the deficits could prove significantly smaller.


Here's a quote by a white house budget staffer acknowledging that the budget would be unsustainable if the projections prove to be correct:

quote:

White House budget chief Peter Orszag said that CBO's long-range economic projections are more pessimistic than those of the White House, private economists and the Federal Reserve and that he remained confident that Obama's budget, if enacted, would produce smaller deficits.

Even so, Orszag acknowledged that if the CBO projections prove accurate, Obama's budget would produce deficits that could not be sustained.

"Deficits in the, let's say, 5% of GDP range would lead to rising debt-to-GDP ratios that would ultimately not be sustainable," Orszag told reporters.








Anyway, try to stay on point!



btw - just messin with you krypton.

Last edited by jerZ07002 on Mar-21-2009 at 01:45

Old Post Mar-21-2009 01:31  United States
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by jerZ07002
the way krypton can turn almost any thread into an anti-iraq war tirade, you are equally skilled at raising points about obama that are mostly tangential (if at all relevant) to the main issues in the thread.

I'm not happy about 10 trillion in deficit spending over 10 years, but that's not the point of the thread (FYI - if you actually read the article the administration admits that if the CBO projections are correct the budget is not sustainable). Anyway, try to stay on point!



just messin with you krypton.


Old Post Mar-21-2009 01:39  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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The17sss
C.R.E.A.M.



Registered: May 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC

quote:
Originally posted by jerZ07002
Anyway, try to stay on point!



btw - just messin with you krypton.


Yeah I know I got a little off subject there... sorry man. I was sitting in this thread as I read the news so I just posted it here.

Old Post Mar-21-2009 02:41  United States
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada



Topic-related - who would've thought, that the amount of bonuses was actually slightly bigger. $218 million is a LOT of money for bonuses when a company is on a verge of bankruptcy. I wonder if they would have been able to pay out these bonuses without the taxpayer bailout. You see, as a private company they can pay out tens of millions in bonuses per person - I couldn't care less, but once the taxpayer money is involved to keep the company afloat - thats a different situation.

Focking greedy focks. Sorry to be so blatant about it. They are liars - lying about the amount of payouts, they are selfish, they are greedy. Fockers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7956903.stm


quote:


AIG bonuses 'higher than thought'
AIG office building, New York
The US bailed out AIG, effectively judging it too large to fail

US insurance giant AIG paid out a total of $218m (£150m) in bonuses after accepting bail-out cash, according to a senior US official.

Documents obtained by Connecticut's attorney general showed AIG's payout was $53m, or 32%, more than was previously estimated.

Papers obtained by subpoena showed 73 people got more than $1m each while five received more than $4m.

The US has rescued AIG with a $170bn bail-out package since September 2008.

But revelations about the size of bonus payments made by the organisation since the bail-out was agreed have sparked a furious reaction among US lawmakers and the general public.

'Distasteful'

For much of the week the total amount AIG paid out in bonuses was reported at $165m.

But documents obtained by Richard Blumenthal, Attorney General of Connecticut, now appear to raise that figure by some 32%.

US lawmakers vote for bonus tax

Connecticut was among 19 states demanding that AIG reveal details of bonuses paid to executives, in an effort to begin recovering the funds.

AIG has made no comment on Mr Blumenthal's findings.

But Mr Blumenthal said on Saturday that large bonuses were "showered like confetti" on AIG employees.

He said the newly-revealed number would "further fuel the justified anger and revulsion that people feel", and he planned to ask AIG bosses to explain the discrepancies in bonus figures, AP reported.

"Unless the number can be explained, it will undercut any lingering rationale the company may have for these unjustified payments," Mr Blumenthal said.

Earlier this week US President Barack Obama described the bonus payments as an "outrage", before state legal figures and congressmen also weighed in.

Even AIG boss Edward Liddy - who underwent questioning by a congressional committee on the issue - has described them as "distasteful".

Reports from the US say that AIG executives are now living in fear of a violent public backlash.

Many are reported to have received death threats and have been advised to take extra security precautions even in areas around their homes.

Protesters are expected to drive past executives' homes on Saturday in an attempt to deliver letters highlighting the plight of ordinary families during the current recession.


___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Old Post Mar-21-2009 18:20  Canada
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/o...25desantis.html

quote:

Dear A.I.G., I Quit!

The following is a letter sent on Tuesday by Jake DeSantis, an executive vice president of the American International Group’s financial products unit, to Edward M. Liddy, the chief executive of A.I.G.

DEAR Mr. Liddy,

It is with deep regret that I submit my notice of resignation from A.I.G. Financial Products. I hope you take the time to read this entire letter. Before describing the details of my decision, I want to offer some context:

I am proud of everything I have done for the commodity and equity divisions of A.I.G.-F.P. I was in no way involved in — or responsible for — the credit default swap transactions that have hamstrung A.I.G. Nor were more than a handful of the 400 current employees of A.I.G.-F.P. Most of those responsible have left the company and have conspicuously escaped the public outrage.

After 12 months of hard work dismantling the company — during which A.I.G. reassured us many times we would be rewarded in March 2009 — we in the financial products unit have been betrayed by A.I.G. and are being unfairly persecuted by elected officials. In response to this, I will now leave the company and donate my entire post-tax retention payment to those suffering from the global economic downturn. My intent is to keep none of the money myself.

I take this action after 11 years of dedicated, honorable service to A.I.G. I can no longer effectively perform my duties in this dysfunctional environment, nor am I being paid to do so. Like you, I was asked to work for an annual salary of $1, and I agreed out of a sense of duty to the company and to the public officials who have come to its aid. Having now been let down by both, I can no longer justify spending 10, 12, 14 hours a day away from my family for the benefit of those who have let me down.

You and I have never met or spoken to each other, so I’d like to tell you about myself. I was raised by schoolteachers working multiple jobs in a world of closing steel mills. My hard work earned me acceptance to M.I.T., and the institute’s generous financial aid enabled me to attend. I had fulfilled my American dream.

I started at this company in 1998 as an equity trader, became the head of equity and commodity trading and, a couple of years before A.I.G.’s meltdown last September, was named the head of business development for commodities. Over this period the equity and commodity units were consistently profitable — in most years generating net profits of well over $100 million. Most recently, during the dismantling of A.I.G.-F.P., I was an integral player in the pending sale of its well-regarded commodity index business to UBS. As you know, business unit sales like this are crucial to A.I.G.’s effort to repay the American taxpayer.

The profitability of the businesses with which I was associated clearly supported my compensation. I never received any pay resulting from the credit default swaps that are now losing so much money. I did, however, like many others here, lose a significant portion of my life savings in the form of deferred compensation invested in the capital of A.I.G.-F.P. because of those losses. In this way I have personally suffered from this controversial activity — directly as well as indirectly with the rest of the taxpayers.

I have the utmost respect for the civic duty that you are now performing at A.I.G. You are as blameless for these credit default swap losses as I am. You answered your country’s call and you are taking a tremendous beating for it.

But you also are aware that most of the employees of your financial products unit had nothing to do with the large losses. And I am disappointed and frustrated over your lack of support for us. I and many others in the unit feel betrayed that you failed to stand up for us in the face of untrue and unfair accusations from certain members of Congress last Wednesday and from the press over our retention payments, and that you didn’t defend us against the baseless and reckless comments made by the attorneys general of New York and Connecticut.

My guess is that in October, when you learned of these retention contracts, you realized that the employees of the financial products unit needed some incentive to stay and that the contracts, being both ethical and useful, should be left to stand. That’s probably why A.I.G. management assured us on three occasions during that month that the company would “live up to its commitment” to honor the contract guarantees.

That may be why you decided to accelerate by three months more than a quarter of the amounts due under the contracts. That action signified to us your support, and was hardly something that one would do if he truly found the contracts “distasteful.”

That may also be why you authorized the balance of the payments on March 13.

At no time during the past six months that you have been leading A.I.G. did you ask us to revise, renegotiate or break these contracts — until several hours before your appearance last week before Congress.

I think your initial decision to honor the contracts was both ethical and financially astute, but it seems to have been politically unwise. It’s now apparent that you either misunderstood the agreements that you had made — tacit or otherwise — with the Federal Reserve, the Treasury, various members of Congress and Attorney General Andrew Cuomo of New York, or were not strong enough to withstand the shifting political winds.

You’ve now asked the current employees of A.I.G.-F.P. to repay these earnings. As you can imagine, there has been a tremendous amount of serious thought and heated discussion about how we should respond to this breach of trust.

As most of us have done nothing wrong, guilt is not a motivation to surrender our earnings. We have worked 12 long months under these contracts and now deserve to be paid as promised. None of us should be cheated of our payments any more than a plumber should be cheated after he has fixed the pipes but a careless electrician causes a fire that burns down the house.

Many of the employees have, in the past six months, turned down job offers from more stable employers, based on A.I.G.’s assurances that the contracts would be honored. They are now angry about having been misled by A.I.G.’s promises and are not inclined to return the money as a favor to you.

The only real motivation that anyone at A.I.G.-F.P. now has is fear. Mr. Cuomo has threatened to “name and shame,” and his counterpart in Connecticut, Richard Blumenthal, has made similar threats — even though attorneys general are supposed to stand for due process, to conduct trials in courts and not the press.

So what am I to do? There’s no easy answer. I know that because of hard work I have benefited more than most during the economic boom and have saved enough that my family is unlikely to suffer devastating losses during the current bust. Some might argue that members of my profession have been overpaid, and I wouldn’t disagree.

That is why I have decided to donate 100 percent of the effective after-tax proceeds of my retention payment directly to organizations that are helping people who are suffering from the global downturn. This is not a tax-deduction gimmick; I simply believe that I at least deserve to dictate how my earnings are spent, and do not want to see them disappear back into the obscurity of A.I.G.’s or the federal government’s budget. Our earnings have caused such a distraction for so many from the more pressing issues our country faces, and I would like to see my share of it benefit those truly in need.

On March 16 I received a payment from A.I.G. amounting to $742,006.40, after taxes. In light of the uncertainty over the ultimate taxation and legal status of this payment, the actual amount I donate may be less — in fact, it may end up being far less if the recent House bill raising the tax on the retention payments to 90 percent stands. Once all the money is donated, you will immediately receive a list of all recipients.

This choice is right for me. I wish others at A.I.G.-F.P. luck finding peace with their difficult decision, and only hope their judgment is not clouded by fear.

Mr. Liddy, I wish you success in your commitment to return the money extended by the American government, and luck with the continued unwinding of the company’s diverse businesses — especially those remaining credit default swaps. I’ll continue over the short term to help make sure no balls are dropped, but after what’s happened this past week I can’t remain much longer — there is too much bad blood. I’m not sure how you will greet my resignation, but at least Attorney General Blumenthal should be relieved that I’ll leave under my own power and will not need to be “shoved out the door.”

Sincerely,

Jake DeSantis

Old Post Mar-25-2009 12:27  United States
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Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

does anyone need any more examples of Maxine Waters' unbelievable stupidity and arrogance?



the look on Geitner's face during this is priceless

Old Post Mar-25-2009 12:34  United States
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Groundhog Boy
Stupidity Offends Me



Registered: May 2005
Location: New York, NY

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
does anyone need any more examples of Maxine Waters' unbelievable stupidity and arrogance?



the look on Geitner's face during this is priceless

I personally love how there's this sentiment that if you're a bank and AIG owed you money for products that you bought, you somehow gamed the system.

I guess these people think that if you have a $1 million dollar life insurance policy, you're more worthy of being paid out than a bank whose failure could cripple the economy.

BTW, Maxine Waters is a moron. Did anyone see her questioning Ken Lewis when the CEOs of the big TARP banks were in front of Congress?


___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

Old Post Mar-25-2009 13:38  United States
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

Did anyone read about Maxine's highly ethical lobbying for TARP funds for the minority run bank her husband sits on the board of?

And yeah, Groundhog--totally agree. The AIG bailout money went to cover their counterparty risk (at least in large part). Yet when it comes out that their counterparties might've actually been *gasp* other financial institutions--it just can't be right!

Old Post Mar-25-2009 14:00  United States
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Groundhog Boy
Stupidity Offends Me



Registered: May 2005
Location: New York, NY

quote:
Originally posted by Shakka
Did anyone read about Maxine's highly ethical lobbying for TARP funds for the minority run bank her husband sits on the board of?

And yeah, Groundhog--totally agree. The AIG bailout money went to cover their counterparty risk (at least in large part). Yet when it comes out that their counterparties might've actually been *gasp* other financial institutions--it just can't be right!

I mean, isn't every AIG policy holder a "counterparty?" Is it the lack of comprehension of the definition of the word that is the problem for the public? I hear the word "counterparty" on the news and the hearings and it almost sounds like people blame the "counterparties" as much as AIG for not doing the due diligence on AIG. Does that blame apply to everyone with an AIG policy, or is there some imaginary line where if you go above X dollars in coverage that you're required to do that in the minds of the general public?


___________________
"Go back to bed america your government is in control
Here's American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it,
Watch these picturary retards bang their fuckin' skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom,
Here you go America you are free to do as we tell you
We want your soul
Your cash, your house, your phone, your cash, your house, your life" -Adam Freeland - We Want Your Soul

Old Post Mar-25-2009 14:16  United States
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Shakka
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
I mean, isn't every AIG policy holder a "counterparty?" Is it the lack of comprehension of the definition of the word that is the problem for the public?


Yes. It would seem to go hand in hand with being in the business of insurance.

Old Post Mar-25-2009 16:08  United States
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The17sss
C.R.E.A.M.



Registered: May 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC

the NY Times published a resignation letter today from one of the AIG officials that was targeted by congress and the prez. He was working in the commodity and equity division of AIG FP and had nothing to do with AIG running into the ground. He was working on a salary of 1 dollar per year because of the guarantee (he thought he had) of being rewarded with his bonus for helping resuce the company from bankruptcy. Check it out:

quote:
DEAR Mr. Liddy,

It is with deep regret that I submit my notice of resignation from A.I.G. Financial Products. I hope you take the time to read this entire letter. Before describing the details of my decision, I want to offer some context:

I am proud of everything I have done for the commodity and equity divisions of A.I.G.-F.P. I was in no way involved in — or responsible for — the credit default swap transactions that have hamstrung A.I.G. Nor were more than a handful of the 400 current employees of A.I.G.-F.P. Most of those responsible have left the company and have conspicuously escaped the public outrage.

After 12 months of hard work dismantling the company — during which A.I.G. reassured us many times we would be rewarded in March 2009 — we in the financial products unit have been betrayed by A.I.G. and are being unfairly persecuted by elected officials. In response to this, I will now leave the company and donate my entire post-tax retention payment to those suffering from the global economic downturn. My intent is to keep none of the money myself.

I take this action after 11 years of dedicated, honorable service to A.I.G. I can no longer effectively perform my duties in this dysfunctional environment, nor am I being paid to do so. Like you, I was asked to work for an annual salary of $1, and I agreed out of a sense of duty to the company and to the public officials who have come to its aid. Having now been let down by both, I can no longer justify spending 10, 12, 14 hours a day away from my family for the benefit of those who have let me down.

You and I have never met or spoken to each other, so I’d like to tell you about myself. I was raised by schoolteachers working multiple jobs in a world of closing steel mills. My hard work earned me acceptance to M.I.T., and the institute’s generous financial aid enabled me to attend. I had fulfilled my American dream.

I started at this company in 1998 as an equity trader, became the head of equity and commodity trading and, a couple of years before A.I.G.’s meltdown last September, was named the head of business development for commodities. Over this period the equity and commodity units were consistently profitable — in most years generating net profits of well over $100 million. Most recently, during the dismantling of A.I.G.-F.P., I was an integral player in the pending sale of its well-regarded commodity index business to UBS. As you know, business unit sales like this are crucial to A.I.G.’s effort to repay the American taxpayer.

The profitability of the businesses with which I was associated clearly supported my compensation. I never received any pay resulting from the credit default swaps that are now losing so much money. I did, however, like many others here, lose a significant portion of my life savings in the form of deferred compensation invested in the capital of A.I.G.-F.P. because of those losses. In this way I have personally suffered from this controversial activity — directly as well as indirectly with the rest of the taxpayers.

I have the utmost respect for the civic duty that you are now performing at A.I.G. You are as blameless for these credit default swap losses as I am. You answered your country’s call and you are taking a tremendous beating for it.

But you also are aware that most of the employees of your financial products unit had nothing to do with the large losses. And I am disappointed and frustrated over your lack of support for us. I and many others in the unit feel betrayed that you failed to stand up for us in the face of untrue and unfair accusations from certain members of Congress last Wednesday and from the press over our retention payments, and that you didn’t defend us against the baseless and reckless comments made by the attorneys general of New York and Connecticut.

My guess is that in October, when you learned of these retention contracts, you realized that the employees of the financial products unit needed some incentive to stay and that the contracts, being both ethical and useful, should be left to stand. That’s probably why A.I.G. management assured us on three occasions during that month that the company would “live up to its commitment” to honor the contract guarantees.

That may be why you decided to accelerate by three months more than a quarter of the amounts due under the contracts. That action signified to us your support, and was hardly something that one would do if he truly found the contracts “distasteful.”

That may also be why you authorized the balance of the payments on March 13.

At no time during the past six months that you have been leading A.I.G. did you ask us to revise, renegotiate or break these contracts — until several hours before your appearance last week before Congress.


I think your initial decision to honor the contracts was both ethical and financially astute, but it seems to have been politically unwise. It’s now apparent that you either misunderstood the agreements that you had made — tacit or otherwise — with the Federal Reserve, the Treasury, various members of Congress and Attorney General Andrew Cuomo of New York, or were not strong enough to withstand the shifting political winds.

You’ve now asked the current employees of A.I.G.-F.P. to repay these earnings. As you can imagine, there has been a tremendous amount of serious thought and heated discussion about how we should respond to this breach of trust.

As most of us have done nothing wrong, guilt is not a motivation to surrender our earnings. We have worked 12 long months under these contracts and now deserve to be paid as promised. None of us should be cheated of our payments any more than a plumber should be cheated after he has fixed the pipes but a careless electrician causes a fire that burns down the house.

Many of the employees have, in the past six months, turned down job offers from more stable employers, based on A.I.G.’s assurances that the contracts would be honored. They are now angry about having been misled by A.I.G.’s promises and are not inclined to return the money as a favor to you.

The only real motivation that anyone at A.I.G.-F.P. now has is fear. Mr. Cuomo has threatened to “name and shame,” and his counterpart in Connecticut, Richard Blumenthal, has made similar threats — even though attorneys general are supposed to stand for due process, to conduct trials in courts and not the press.

So what am I to do? There’s no easy answer. I know that because of hard work I have benefited more than most during the economic boom and have saved enough that my family is unlikely to suffer devastating losses during the current bust. Some might argue that members of my profession have been overpaid, and I wouldn’t disagree.

That is why I have decided to donate 100 percent of the effective after-tax proceeds of my retention payment directly to organizations that are helping people who are suffering from the global downturn. This is not a tax-deduction gimmick; I simply believe that I at least deserve to dictate how my earnings are spent, and do not want to see them disappear back into the obscurity of A.I.G.’s or the federal government’s budget.Our earnings have caused such a distraction for so many from the more pressing issues our country faces, and I would like to see my share of it benefit those truly in need.

On March 16 I received a payment from A.I.G. amounting to $742,006.40, after taxes. In light of the uncertainty over the ultimate taxation and legal status of this payment, the actual amount I donate may be less — in fact, it may end up being far less if the recent House bill raising the tax on the retention payments to 90 percent stands. Once all the money is donated, you will immediately receive a list of all recipients.

This choice is right for me. I wish others at A.I.G.-F.P. luck finding peace with their difficult decision, and only hope their judgment is not clouded by fear.

Mr. Liddy, I wish you success in your commitment to return the money extended by the American government, and luck with the continued unwinding of the company’s diverse businesses — especially those remaining credit default swaps. I’ll continue over the short term to help make sure no balls are dropped, but after what’s happened this past week I can’t remain much longer — there is too much bad blood. I’m not sure how you will greet my resignation, but at least Attorney General Blumenthal should be relieved that I’ll leave under my own power and will not need to be “shoved out the door.”

Sincerely,

Jake DeSantis

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/o...gewanted=1&_r=2


I believe there are a finite number of people that are smart and capable upper eschelon business leaders in this world... and what I fear is that a lot of them are going to look to other countries to showcase their talents.

Old Post Mar-25-2009 16:46  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Tax-payer funded AIG to give tens of millions in bonuses
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