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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > USA > USA - West Coast / Las Vegas > R.I.P. Michael Jackson (1958-2009)
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Miss Julia
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Los Angeles

I would go if I didn't have to work.

Old Post Jul-04-2009 04:06  United States
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bigjimslade002
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Old Post Jul-04-2009 06:39  United States
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Hypersky
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Registered: Mar 2005
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I get the feeling the funeral will be a logistical and financial nightmare for the city.

Old Post Jul-04-2009 07:51  Europe
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tjpatel
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Old Post Jul-04-2009 23:40 
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DJ RANN
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Registered: May 2001
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Check this shit out...

ORIGINS OF THE MOONWALK

There's even one of Fred Astair in there

Old Post Jul-05-2009 19:34 
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mattW
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Registered: Jun 2007
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/04/o...rbert.html?_r=1

July 4, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
Behind the Facade
By BOB HERBERT

Meeting Michael Jackson in the mid-1980s was one of the creepier experiences of my life. I was an editor at The Daily News and had to present him with an award in a large room with just a handful of onlookers and a photographer at Madison Square Garden.

I wasn’t put off by the fact that Jackson, then in his mid-20s, couldn’t make small talk. Lots of people have trouble with that. There was something about his overall behavior that weirded me out. He seemed, even then, to be a person who was trying with all of his being to step outside of reality and leave it behind.

Emmanuel Lewis, the child star of the hit TV series “Webster,” was with Jackson that evening. The undersized Lewis was probably 13 at the time, but he looked much younger, maybe 7 or 8.

Jackson seemed to relate only to Lewis. He made faces at the tiny boy and giggled as Lewis hopped around and climbed over furniture, much to Jackson’s delight. I remember thinking as I left the Garden that Jackson had treated Lewis almost as a pet.

I’ve never heard any suggestion of anything improper about the relationship between Jackson and Lewis. But what I wish I had thought more about in those long-ago days of Michael-mania was the era of extreme immaturity and grotesque irresponsibility that was already well under way in America. The craziness played out on a shockingly broad front and Jackson’s life, among many others, would prove to be a shining and ultimately tragic example.

Ronald Reagan was president, making promises he couldn’t keep about taxes and deficits and allowing the readings of a West Coast astrologer to shape his public schedule. The movie “Wall Street” would soon appear, accurately reflecting the nation’s wholesale acceptance of unrestrained greed and other excesses of the rich and powerful.

In neighborhoods through much of black America, crack was taking a fearful toll. Young criminals were arming themselves with ever more powerful weapons, and prison garb was used to set fashion trends.

Motown was the label that gave us the Jackson 5. But when Michael and his brothers released their first album in 1969, the label had already reached its creative peak and most of the best work — the stunning originality of the Miracles, the Marvelettes, Mary Wells, Martha and the Vandellas, the Supremes, the Temptations, and others — had been done. Hip-hop would soon appear, and then the violence and misogyny of gangsta rap.

All kinds of restraints were coming off. It was almost as if the adults had gone into hiding. The deregulation that we were told would be great for the economy was being applied to the culture as a whole. Women could be treated as sex objects again as misogyny, hardly limited to hip-hop, went mainstream. (Have you looked at network television lately, or listened to the radio?) Astonishing numbers of men abandoned their children with impunity. Most of the nation seemed fine with the idea of going to war without a draft and without raising taxes.

In many ways we descended as a society into a fantasyland, trying to leave the limits and consequences and obligations of the real world behind. Politicians stopped talking about the poor. We built up staggering amounts of debt and called it an economic boom. We shipped jobs overseas by the millions without ever thinking seriously about how to replace them. We let New Orleans drown.

Jackson was the perfect star for the era, the embodiment of fantasy gone wild. He tried to carve himself up into another person, but, of course, there was the same Michael Jackson underneath — talented but psychologically disabled to the point where he was a danger to himself and others.

Reality is unforgiving. There is no escape. Behind the Jackson facade was the horror of child abuse. Court records and reams of well-documented media accounts contain a stream of serious allegations of child sex abuse and other inappropriate behavior with very young boys. Jackson, a multimillionaire megastar, was excused as an eccentric. Small children were delivered into his company, to spend the night in his bed, often by their parents.

One case of alleged pedophilia against Jackson, the details of which would make your hair stand on end, was settled for a reported $25 million. He beat another case in court.

The Michael-mania that has erupted since Jackson’s death — not just an appreciation of his music, but a giddy celebration of his life — is yet another spasm of the culture opting for fantasy over reality. We don’t want to look under the rock that was Jackson’s real life.

As with so many other things, we don’t want to know.


___________________
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

---JFK---

A fight is not won by one punch or kick. Either learn to endure or hire a bodyguard.

Forget about winning and losing; forget about pride and pain. Let your opponent graze your skin and you smash into his flesh; let him smash into your flesh and you fracture his bones; let him fracture your bones and you take his life. Do not be concerned with escaping safely - lay your life before him.

---Bruce Lee---

Old Post Jul-05-2009 23:41  Puerto Rico
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SiLveR_NrGy_985
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2004
Location: NYC

quote:
Originally posted by S Nate Faulkner
quote:
wow, the ignorance in that statement is astounding, as is the irony.


yet you forget that your statements were just as ignorant especially when you use lies to continue your ignorant rhetoric i may have gone off the line but it was reasonable...

quote:
Originally posted by S Nate Faulkner
Again, astounding ignorance. Why don't i hear you praising Hitler for his dramatic and effective social reforms he pioneered and we use to this day (one example, interstates. many more tho)? Is it because he also was a mass murderer? tell me, just how many number 1 hits does it take to make one act of child molestation ok?


the man was found not guilty! and there is now pure evidence to prove that this whole thing was a lie to bring him down. The kid was put up to it by his own father and mother (she has done the same thing to some other celebrities for greed)did you even listen to the conversation the father had? the kid admited that it was a complete lie and this proves how the media controls people like you, you'll believe and feed off of any bullshyt that comes out of tv but then again that doesnt surprise me knowning that you live in that filth that is hollywood....

How the fuck can you put MJ and Hitler in the same sentence!!? that was weak! you want to know real mass murderers today? you dont have to look far they were your presidents in the recent years


___________________
"real social change for the oppressed people's can only be brought through a revolution by the people."

Old Post Jul-06-2009 22:33  United States
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S Nate Faulkner
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2007
Location: N. Hollywood, CA

quote:
Originally posted by SiLveR_NrGy_985
yet you forget that your statements were just as ignorant especially when you use lies to continue your ignorant rhetoric i may have gone off the line but it was reasonable...


I didn't forget. I'll be the first to admit how ignorant I am. As such i can spot ignorance a mile away.

quote:

the man was found not guilty! and there is now pure evidence to prove that this whole thing was a lie to bring him down. The kid was put up to it by his own father and mother (she has done the same thing to some other celebrities for greed)did you even listen to the conversation the father had? the kid admited that it was a complete lie and this proves how the media controls people like you, you'll believe and feed off of any bullshyt that comes out of tv but then again that doesnt surprise me knowning that you live in that filth that is hollywood....


I did not base my conclusion on this one case. Nor would I if it was the only one. And seeing as I do not know him personally, I can ONLY get info about him from the media (TV, internet, papers....) Where do you get your info about him? how did you hear that conversation with his father? BUT, what really convinced me of his tendencies comes from growing up the son of a rape crises center volunteer and hearing so many stories of how child molesters act/talk/defend their actions, and that pretty well matches up with what the media has told me how MJ acts/talks/defends.

By mindlessly and emotionally gushing publicly equating someone's accomplishments to their worth, and forgiving/ignoring very compelling evidence of certain evils, then that would lead me to believe that YOU, sir, are the one that is truly controlled by the media. Surely not one who uses the media as a tool along with a hefty dose of critical thought and logic to reach conclusions. But alas, thousands of people have fought and died for your right to be that way.

quote:
How the fuck can you put MJ and Hitler in the same sentence!!?


Very easily. You just did it too. So what?

If I am to assume you actually mean "how can i compare them", then I failed to communicate my point effectively to you. I'll try again.

My point is that just because someone does something you consider great, that doesn't NOT in any way make them a great person or make up for any great evil that they may have done.

quote:
That was weak! you want to know real mass murderers today? you dont have to look far they were your presidents in the recent years


No argument there. But then again, I don't recall posting how much i loved any of them.

Also as a side note, from my research, Hitler's body count is head and shoulders above any Presidential body count. I'm willing to bet Stalin is the only one with a higher body count than Hitler.


___________________
<snfaulkner> have you ever shit in a drawer?
<frankie34> wtf?
<snfaulkner> face!

Old Post Jul-07-2009 23:54  United States
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bas
Stronger Lover



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Here I Am Baby

quote:
Originally posted by alan

Wow. Really? In this thread? Classy.


___________________

Last edited by bas on Jul-10-2009 at 20:35

Old Post Jul-08-2009 00:12  Egypt
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R!CH
check signal



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: potrero hill

quote:
Originally posted by S Nate Faulkner
I did not base my conclusion on this one case. Nor would I if it was the only one. And seeing as I do not know him personally, I can ONLY get info about him from the media (TV, internet, papers....) Where do you get your info about him? how did you hear that conversation with his father? BUT, what really convinced me of his tendencies comes from growing up the son of a rape crises center volunteer and hearing so many stories of how child molesters act/talk/defend their actions, and that pretty well matches up with what the media has told me how MJ acts/talks/defends.

By mindlessly and emotionally gushing publicly equating someone's accomplishments to their worth, and forgiving/ignoring very compelling evidence of certain evils, then that would lead me to believe that YOU, sir, are the one that is truly controlled by the media. Surely not one who uses the media as a tool along with a hefty dose of critical thought and logic to reach conclusions. But alas, thousands of people have fought and died for your right to be that way.


will you guys both stop pretending like you know what happened? what the fuck is the point of arguing something neither of you will ever know the truth about? you speak of critical thinking, but critical thinking would be the acknowledgment that no one has enough facts to be able to argue either side and thus shouldn't even bother to. critical thinking would impart some contextual understanding that the man led a tragic life of abuse and exploitation, and that it was beaten into his head from a very young age that his only purpose in life was to entertaining us. for chrissake he bleached his skin white because he thought it would make us like him more. have some pity for the kind of tragic upbringing that would lead a person to do such a thing. if he did touch little boys, it would only serve as a testament to how perverse our society is in shaping its pop cultural icons. of course assuming such would be getting ahead of ourselves and you don't really need mj prove that point. just look at britney, lindsay, whitney, nicole, etc... how can anyone raised like this be expected to lead a well-adjusted life? ya michael acted weird and did weird things to himself, but i'd like to know how so many people are capable of making the leap from weird to child molester based on nothing more than hearsay. amazing.


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Old Post Jul-08-2009 00:41  United States
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Miss Julia
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Los Angeles

quote:
Originally posted by R!CH
for chrissake he bleached his skin white because he thought it would make us like him more.


I didn't bother reading that morons post that you quoted, but I just wanted to say that he didn't bleach his skin to make anyone like him more. He didn't bleach his skin at all. He had a skin disorder that make his skin blotchy, and he had to wear make up to make it even toned. Refer to this video about 5:40 mins into it:



I just watched all the 8 parts this weekend. Really good interview!

Old Post Jul-08-2009 01:09  United States
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S Nate Faulkner
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2007
Location: N. Hollywood, CA

quote:
Originally posted by R!CH
will you guys both stop pretending like you know what happened? what the fuck is the point of arguing something neither of you will ever know the truth about?


I'm not pretending to actually know. I'm going off what I've read and what my experience has taught me. I thought I made that clear in my last post. And the point of arguing about it is that I am drunk and bored. Why are you arguing?

quote:
you speak of critical thinking, but critical thinking would be the acknowledgment that no one has enough facts to be able to argue either side and thus shouldn't even bother to.


The only people with ALL the facts are MJ and potentially any of the alleged "victims". AKA Only the people directly involved. Yet there seems to be a great deal of discussion of billions of topics by billions of people not directly involved every day. How can that be?

quote:
critical thinking would impart some contextual understanding that the man led a tragic life of abuse and exploitation, and that it was beaten into his head from a very young age that his only purpose in life was to entertaining us. for chrissake he bleached his skin white because he thought it would make us like him more. have some pity for the kind of tragic upbringing that would lead a person to do such a thing.


I was not under the impression that i was talking about WHY he may have did anything. I thought i was discussing if i thought he actually did or not and why, and why I think holding ANY one on such a stellar pedestal despite their evil deeds is retarded.

quote:
If he did touch little boys, it would only serve as a testament to how perverse our society is in shaping its pop cultural icons. of course assuming such would be getting ahead of ourselves and you don't really need mj prove that point. just look at britney, lindsay, whitney, nicole, etc... how can anyone raised like this be expected to lead a well-adjusted life?


Precisely. Which is why hailing him as a great person cause he had some giant hits and is dead despite any evil doings is retarded. Also, this would be clue #1 to not let your kids sleep in his bed.

quote:
ya michael acted weird and did weird things to himself, but i'd like to know how so many people are capable of making the leap from weird to child molester based on nothing more than hearsay.


Again, all anyone here has is hearsay. I do not know him or any of the kids personally, nor do i care enough to do so. Yet since this forum/life is not a court of law, I/we/all of us can and do use hearsay to make decisions everyday, like it or not. HOWEVER, it's the amount and pattern of hearsay I have run across from many, some admittedly questionable, sources, but not known bad, and how it fits with what i've been taught/know. That is what i mean by critical thought. Using all sources of info before making up my mind. I am not sad he's dead just because the TV tells me to be so today, which so many people seem to do. Nor do I fear for my life because the news is on stormwatch '09 with live team coverage of where a tree almost fell over, but then didn't. Similarly, if i WAS stupid enough to have a kid, i would surely get them vaccinated, despite what Oprah or Jenny McCarthy are trying to tell me.

quote:
amazing.



Is it? Are you new to the interweb? Besides porn and cyber-bullying, rumor-mongering is the reason for the internet.


___________________
<snfaulkner> have you ever shit in a drawer?
<frankie34> wtf?
<snfaulkner> face!

Old Post Jul-08-2009 01:29  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > USA > USA - West Coast / Las Vegas > R.I.P. Michael Jackson (1958-2009)
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