lol, politics.

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Originally posted by Sushipunk lol, American politics.

Fixed

and to think she was that close to being second in command...Nothing personal against her, but she isn't the right person for the job.

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Originally posted by The17sss BUT, if you want to be honest, why won't you discuss the housing bubble bursting which was due to Clinton's "affordable housing act" giving unqualified people mortgages... which was pushed further by Democrats Chris Dodd and Barney Frank?

i dont know how many times we have to keep reminding you that 75% of toxic assets covered by the TARP were to institutions exempt from clinton's reforms.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i dont know how many times we have to keep reminding you that 75% of toxic assets covered by the TARP were to institutions exempt from clinton's reforms.

Can you link or name the institutions not exempt please?

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Originally posted by The17sss

Right, and that graph isn't gamed at all to your advantage by virtue of the following:

The numbers prior to FY 2009 did not include expenditures on Iraq or Afghanistan, which, as you might be able to read, contributed significantly more to deficits in the Bush years:



The fact that funding for those conflicts is now being added to the budget figures is more transparent, but lends itself to the use of misleading charts by people like yourself.

The second thing your chart doesn't capture is TARP I, which is listed under FY 2009 since it didn't start disbursing largely until October - December of 2008. So another Bush burden of $700 billion is added to Obama's "irresponsible spending" figures.

Nobody is going to sit here and contest that Obama is not spending more money than we have - what we will contest, right along with Republican presidential nominee 2012 Mitt Romney, is that in dire economic times like we've seen, that spending is necessary. You can complain about debt and the deficit all you like, but you'd better be prepared to offer more than "debt is bad" - for instance, an alternative policy option to economic stimulus would be nice for starters.

The CBO just issued a new report appraising stimulus disbursements thus far - they estimate that the average American had 1.9% more cash on hand in June than they would have without the stimulus. Given that very little has been disbursed through the stimulus yet, that's not an insignificant amount of extra cash - unfortunately, most people are still putting that money toward initial savings and the lag in consumer demand hasn't caught up yet. Once it does, we'll see that those slow-reacting numbers you focus on (unemployment, etc.) will start to change as well.

I know that you complain that the Obama administration promised results in months. Well, the time interval between February and June is still most effectively measured in months, and we're beginning to see some change, so I'd say their estimates were about right.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov and we're beginning to see some change

Yea...'green shoots'

Roll your eyes all you'd like, but the fact that consumer confidence and demand are lagging variables doesn't change - consumer spending and unemployment numbers will begin to improve, but it takes time. Attacking the Obama administration on principle is ok if you disagree and have an alternate proposal you support, but saying "see, four months after the stimulus unemployment isn't back to normal!" is simply disingenuous.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Roll your eyes all you'd like, but the fact that consumer confidence and demand are lagging variables doesn't change - consumer spending and unemployment numbers will begin to improve, but it takes time. Attacking the Obama administration on principle is ok if you disagree and have an alternate proposal you support, but saying "see, four months after the stimulus unemployment isn't back to normal!" is simply disingenuous.

I never once believed that simulus was going to be a quick fix, but I have not seen one fact showing that the US is anywhere near recovery

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Originally posted by The17sss Please don't patronize me by telling me I need to think before I type... you're just not well enough informed and it's pretty obvious. Sorry.

I am not well informed at all. I thought I posted as much but if I didn't, I apologize.

You seem to be quite well informed.

If you, someone who is quite well informed and kind of (?) intelligent, take all of the information stuffed inside your brain and actually process it, aka think about it, you wouldn't be typing what you type.

Obviously though, you disagree.

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Nu skal jeg betro dig min hemmelighed. Den er ganske ligetil:
kun med hjertet kan man se rigtigt. Det væsentlige er usynligt for øjet.

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Originally posted by saluyamo I never once believed that simulus was going to be a quick fix, but I have not seen one fact showing that the US is anywhere near recovery

We're not, and nobody has claimed as much.

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Originally posted by saluyamo I never once believed that simulus was going to be a quick fix, but I have not seen one fact showing that the US is anywhere near recovery

The economy has stabilized. You cannot deny that fact.