quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Okay, so from what I understand some of you are saying, like Lira, is, there was always matter and energy in existence, and that it is eternal?

Well, that's a possibility.

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Originally posted by Krypton But there was not always matter in this universe. Right?

I wouldn't rule that out as impossible, either.

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Originally posted by Krypton So if that's true, where did the matter come from?

I think that Osdenwald guy said something about stuff coming into existence thanks to quantum fluctuations.

And, before you ask where these fluctuations came from, I don't even pretend to understand Quantum physics, so I'm utterly ignorant about that. There are gazillions of possible answers, so I'm just being a smart-arse pointing out the fact that you're taking too much for granted

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quote:

Originally posted by david.michael I transfer energy to mass.... in my pants.

OMG! I transfer mass to energy... in my pants!

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira OMG! I transfer mass to energy... in my pants!

It really does work both ways. How's that for baffling?

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Originally posted by Lira Well, that's a possibility. I wouldn't rule that out as impossible, either. I think that Osdenwald guy said something about stuff coming into existence thanks to quantum fluctuations. And, before you ask where these fluctuations came from, I don't even pretend to understand Quantum physics, so I'm utterly ignorant about that. There are gazillions of possible answers, so I'm just being a smart-arse pointing out the fact that you're taking too much for granted

Well, the early universe was too hot for atoms to form. Sigh, we've come so far in knowledge, yet, we are still far far away from really understanding how this reality came to be.

Last edited by Krypton on Jul-20-2009 at 20:05

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Originally posted by david.michael It really does work both ways. How's that for baffling?

And I also transfer mass to pants... in my energy!

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira And I also transfer mass to pants... in my energy!

I guess it ends there... I don't really transfer pants to mass... it just contains it.

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So, I think we've come to something of a conclusion. The universe is infinite, but not our current laws of nature (gravity, electromagneticism, strong/weak force, cosmological constants), which began at the point we call the Plank Epoch. And that matter and energy are also infinite and thus have no creation point.

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Originally posted by Krypton And that matter and energy are also infinite and thus have no creation point.

nope

Couldn't be arsed reading the whole thing. But it seems to me that when asking "what happened before the Big Bang" you are in fact asking "what happened before the beginning of time". This is as meaningless as asking what exists outside of the universe. Without space there is no notion of "outside" or "inside" or even "existance" as most of us are capable of understanding it. SImilarly in the absence of time concepts like "before" are meaningless..

To quote the article Lira posted:

quote:

The principles of Quantum Gravity may ultimatly force us to reconsider questions like 'What happened before the Big Bang?' because they imply the existence of something (time) that may not have any meaning at all. These questions may be as empty of meaning as an explorer on the north pole asking, 'Which way is North?'. Only the complete theory of Quantum Gravity may tell us how to ask the right questions!

PS - Nice find Lira.. That was mind-fuckingly awesome

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Thanks, Astro, I got that from Wikipedia's article about Heat Death, I think

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton The universe is infinite, but not our current laws of nature (gravity, electromagneticism, strong/weak force, cosmological constants), which began at the point we call the Plank Epoch. And that matter and energy are also infinite and thus have no creation point.

What makes you think the universe is infinite? And why would that be any different from our current laws of nature? Why do you think they may not have had a creation point?

You see, I'm not arguing in favour of anything here. But rather, I just want to point out this thread is totally on the wrong track

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