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Originally posted by mfitterer1 You have to realize several things. First; the climate is different. Those artists had far less competition and made far more money. Thus they had the time and money accorded by past successful productions to not rush out ideas of future tracks. In today's digital era where there are so many producers; it's just not possible to do this unless you're a purist. Luckily I am, and I don't make my living from music yet, but there are many people who do. In order for them to stay profitable at all they have to put out more works to keep the small amount of income streaming in. I actually think a lot of the artists today are more talented, but deal with greater hurdles in the present climate.

IMO, therein lies the problem. Producers should worry less about amount of productions (quantity) and more about making a few outstanding productions a year. Competition should be irrelevant.

Many of those artists from 90's actually had full time day jobs - and only gave them up when time restictions (not money) forced them to.

Tony De Vit was the biggest hard house producer and pioneer of the late 80's and early 90's and only gave up his full time computer programming job in 1995.

Even Danny Howells who really broke through in the very late 90's only gave up his day job in the early 2000's becuase he was too busy living on planes for gigs.

Chicane/Disco Citizens (Nick Bracegirdle) - only put out about 3 tracks a year (apart from albums).

Producers are too keen these days to just want to make a quick buck off a quick production and it's a false economy. They would sell more if they focused on fewer productions and not thought about how they can make rent with their next remix. Don't get me wrong, you gotta eat, but I just think you make more of a mark(and money) in the long run by focusing on quality.

...And that, along with experience and a very good musically historical point of reference, is what these more seasone artists can bring to the table in todays market.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN IMO, therein lies the problem. Producers should worry less about amount of productions (quantity) and more about making a few outstanding productions a year. Competition should be irrelevant. Many of those artists from 90's actually had full time day jobs - and only gave them up when time restictions (not money) forced them to. Tony De Vit was the biggest hard house producer and pioneer of the late 80's and early 90's and only gave up his full time computer programming job in 1995. Even Danny Howells who really broke through in the very late 90's only gave up his day job in the early 2000's becuase he was too busy living on planes for gigs. Chicane/Disco Citizens (Nick Bracegirdle) - only put out about 3 tracks a year (apart from albums). Producers are too keen these days to just want to make a quick buck off a quick production and it's a false economy. They would sell more if they focused on fewer productions and not thought about how they can make rent with their next remix. Don't get me wrong, you gotta eat, but I just think you make more of a mark(and money) in the long run by focusing on quality. ...And that, along with experience and a very good musically historical point of reference, is what these more seasone artists can bring to the table in todays market.

Agree with pretty much everything here. But in todays market you have to go AGAINST the grain in order to be successful. That's something people aren't very good; or at least comfortable doing. When you DO put out 5 smashes a year and you see they hit big but then within a month fall off the map; it discourages people from continuing upon that path.

However what they fail to realize is that once you do that 2-3 years in a row people are going to start noticing and that's when you really will make it in today's age. But most people aren't patient enough for that and probably don't love the music enough to put in the requisite amount of work needed to continually make bangers. Most of these tracks have amazing ideas; or amazing engineering, but they are severely lacking in some area. In basic; the little intricacies aren't paid enough attention to these days. People get their idea, and surround it with what comes to their mind first, and then boom, it's off to the mastering house. I think the full development of ideas is what is lacking today.

The thing about those artists is that most of the people from that time period aren't the hardcore trance people of today. It has evolved too much. Everything back then focused on lush deep prog and epic trance. These days it's all focused on the club and the epic trance produced these days is trash. There is a generation gap being dealt with here...

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 When you DO put out 5 smashes a year and you see they hit big but then within a month fall off the map; it discourages people from continuing upon that path.

IMO a lot of fans are also far less patient due to the easy availability of music these days. They prefer producers who can just churn them out and DJs who will constantly show them the new flavor of the week, and ultimately to them all the tracks are basically forgettable and interchangeable anyway. I think the decreasing cost of music and the movement to intangible formats like MP3 and WAV also contributes to this. Do people treasure MP3s like they treasure vinyls or CDs in their colorful cases, that they can hold in their hands and place in a physical player? Maybe not.

The kind of producer who succeeds in this new environment is of a different sort than the old guys like Lieb and Ferry, IMO: someone who can quickly come up with ideas that are superficially catchy and interesting but have little lasting appeal. This carries over to the "loudness war" style of mastering as well, which is brash and loud and gets immediate attention, but grates after repeated listening. Everything seems to be moving toward the ideal of "flashy but forgettable."

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles IMO a lot of fans are also far less patient due to the easy availability of music these days. They prefer producers who can just churn them out and DJs who will constantly show them the new flavor of the week, and ultimately to them all the tracks are basically forgettable and interchangeable anyway. I think the decreasing cost of music and the movement to intangible formats like MP3 and WAV also contributes to this. Do people treasure MP3s like they treasure vinyls or CDs in their colorful cases, that they can hold in their hands and place in a physical player? Maybe not. The kind of producer who succeeds in this new environment is of a different sort than the old guys like Lieb and Ferry, IMO: someone who can quickly come up with ideas that are superficially catchy and interesting but have little lasting appeal. This carries over to the "loudness war" style of mastering as well, which is brash and loud and gets immediate attention, but grates after repeated listening. Everything seems to be moving toward the ideal of "flashy but forgettable."

Easily summarized; today is based upon commercial production. We may appreciate the masterful works of art that are so rare but to the fans they are the same as the superficial catchy tracks of the moment. Their thought process goes something like this. "Well if i'm not gonna make bank off spending the extra time on a production let's just put out as much as possible so we keep our name in peoples mouths." The onnly care is pleasing the fans (everyone) and making money (good percentage.) Very rarely do they care about pleasing themselves by fufilling their potential

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Originally posted by DJ RANN IMO, therein lies the problem. Producers should worry less about amount of productions (quantity) and more about making a few outstanding productions a year. Competition should be irrelevant.

I agree 100% but playing new tracks and unreleased music is more popular than ever by a long shot, and with tracks being thrown out left and right, it's only a few days before your track is buried and forgotten about. If EVERYBODY would cool it, we'd be ok, but as a DJ of ten years, I can tell you that listening and playing new music is sooooooo much more pleasant. I love getting a bunch of promos, skipping through them a bit, burning them on CD's, and then going to town with my Rane Empath Rotary.

But yea, in an ideal world what you said would be great, but it'll never happen unless distributors globally monopolize and the producers of the world form a union (aka, never)

I put almost all of the blame on the artists who started and accelerated this trend beyond belief. Really, it was just a few big name DJs who were just trying to one up the other and look at what it's done to dance music. As a label owner who puts out frequent releases, I can't deny that I am "flooding" the market as well, but I have no choice. If I had more leverage things would be different (and I will soon) but right now I have to be as artist friendly as one can be although I'm starting to gain some leverage and will be much, much more selective about future Olympik releases in the near future.

One of the dynamics though is Olympik is a non-genre specific label, so I'm not just covering and catering to one crowd. I just finished inking an ambient album along with yet another outstanding TasteXperience track that will be the follow up to Hydewood. Still looking for nu-disco, dub step, liquid D&B, movie scores, you name it buddy!

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley I agree 100% but playing new tracks and unreleased music is more popular than ever by a long shot, and with tracks being thrown out left and right, it's only a few days before your track is buried and forgotten about. If EVERYBODY would cool it, we'd be ok, but as a DJ of ten years, I can tell you that listening and playing new music is sooooooo much more pleasant. I love getting a bunch of promos, skipping through them a bit, burning them on CD's, and then going to town with my Rane Empath Rotary.

Because it is more popular is exactly the problem. This is why I pretty much do the opposite. Everyone plays the new tracks to death, and they lose their luster. Let's be honest most of the ears for edm are people directly involved with edm. So if you're playing the same tracks the same way 5,000 other djs are, even if you're more technical than them you're no better and will command no greater of a listening audience. People want to hear different. That doesn't mean you can't use those new unreleased or big popular tracks; you just have to use them differently and they accomplish different feelings. Tracks are thrown out left and right but that doesn't mean YOU have to throw them out. It's all about the collective entity (i.e. the mix) not the individual pieces. That's why I prefer people to listen to my mixes blind. There's a reason every track is where it is. Too many people just look at a tracklist and that's their deciding factor on if they will like the mix; even BEFORE they listen to it. A song doesn't have to be new to establish that new feeling. I just went through some new prog labels I found and bought a bunch of tracks dating all the way back to 06/07. Many of the songs have been previously undiscovered/underplayed. There are many ways of putting new stuff into your mixes; other than things ACTUALLY being new.

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Originally posted by DjStephenWiley As a label owner who puts out frequent releases, I can't deny that I am "flooding" the market as well, but I have no choice. If I had more leverage things would be different (and I will soon) but right now I have to be as artist friendly as one can be although I'm starting to gain some leverage and will be much, much more selective about future Olympik releases in the near future.

What makes you say you have no choice? The label is yours. You can take it in whatever direction you choose. You don't need leverage, or a certain quota of tracks. Many of the best labels when they release a track you know there's no way it's not gold because of their past release history. You don't have to reach the top overnight; because the only way to do that is by sacrificing yourself.

I agree with RANN

there is just too much redundant music being made . You have no idea how much music I download trying to find something new and fresh.I actually get a little too happy when I actually find something worth listening to.

I remember way back when I couldn't wait to hear the few releases in EDM that were being made and how each song had something unique about it. You could tell the artist by the actual production unlike too many producers now that just incorporate stock samples, presets and bad taste resulting in a shit stream of bad music.

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Originally posted by RichieV I agree with RANN there is just too much redundant music being made . You have no idea how much music I download trying to find something new and fresh.I actually get a little too happy when I actually find something worth listening to. I remember way back when I couldn't wait to hear the few releases in EDM that were being made and how each song had something unique about it. You could tell the artist by the actual production unlike too many producers now that just incorporate stock samples, presets and bad taste resulting in a shit stream of bad music.

Agree 100%. "Redundant" is a great adjective for this. So many tracks with no personality out there, made by producers trying to churn out whatever sound is popular this month rather than putting the time and effort into making something that will last.

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Originally posted by mfitterer1 Because it is more popular is exactly the problem. This is why I pretty much do the opposite. Everyone plays the new tracks to death, and they lose their luster. Let's be honest most of the ears for edm are people directly involved with edm. So if you're playing the same tracks the same way 5,000 other djs are, even if you're more technical than them you're no better and will command no greater of a listening audience. People want to hear different. That doesn't mean you can't use those new unreleased or big popular tracks; you just have to use them differently and they accomplish different feelings. Tracks are thrown out left and right but that doesn't mean YOU have to throw them out. It's all about the collective entity (i.e. the mix) not the individual pieces. That's why I prefer people to listen to my mixes blind. There's a reason every track is where it is. Too many people just look at a tracklist and that's their deciding factor on if they will like the mix; even BEFORE they listen to it. A song doesn't have to be new to establish that new feeling. I just went through some new prog labels I found and bought a bunch of tracks dating all the way back to 06/07. Many of the songs have been previously undiscovered/underplayed. There are many ways of putting new stuff into your mixes; other than things ACTUALLY being new.

I agree with this and this is exactley what I try to do whe ni mix. I put a lot of thought into my tracklists.

I really like both mixes - ace stuff