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Originally posted by chinamon sometimes it is. if you havent noticed, our oldschool crowd was diminishing quick because people were getting older and starting families. there was not enough new blood to fill those shoes. big parties were getting small and small parties were getting even smaller. going mainstream was pretty much the only option we had to save it.

Who's WE? I want to know so I can join this jedi group of elders.

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Originally posted by gummybear Who's WE? I want to know so I can join this jedi group of elders.

you're not cool enough.

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Originally posted by VDub I'd say calling 2000 the nosedive is off by a few years Jay... In my opinion, the end of 2004 was the turning point...

In 2000 Sandra Poop-and-tell-all tried to bring forth the rave bill. (it didnt pass thank god). Also at the same time el jefe Fantino changed the attitude of the cops towards raves and clubs and set them on the path that they follow today. (namely belligerence and obtuseness) Hence why Idance happened in 2000. You could even argue that oct 1999 was the turning point when that kid died at hullabaloo and started the big hullabaloo amongst politicians. The banning of parties at municipal buildings in 2000 was a huge downfall as well. Remember Better Living Centre and Science Centre parties anyone? The "rave protocal" made it prohibitively expensive to throw a party as it was designed to do. 1 pay duty cop per 50 people? Yeah right!!

It didnt help matters at all when Toronto elected Miller and then Vaughan who along with their leftie bretheren, enacted even more bylaws and crackdowns on the scene. Lets not even go there with the smoking law in 04.

As i said, its mostly the politicians to blame in toronto for the downfall of the scene. Whats left are the crumbles that people try to string together to make something happen.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

There isn't any "scene" to save though.

Every generation has their own era and brand/style of partying.

The era of clubbing and raving I was a part of owed a lot to growing up @ a time that saw the rebirth of the 60s & 70s ideals, lots of musical movements either in their infancy, being rediscovered, or evolving & attaining popularity.

The current era still has those elements, but it's the domain of those that grew up on Brittany and American Idol now.

Things didn't "have" to go mainstream in order to ensure the scene persevered, but it did so because that's what happens to generational movements.

They get absorbed into the pop culture consciousness and the next generation takes what they like and mashes them up with the rest.

Look @ punk, funk, folk, or any music you see advertised @ 3am in a boxset during an infomercial.

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Originally posted by crazedcanuck There isn't any "scene" to save though. Every generation has their own era and brand/style of partying. The era of clubbing and raving I was a part of owed a lot to growing up @ a time that saw the rebirth of the 60s & 70s ideals, lots of musical movements either in their infancy, being rediscovered, or evolving & attaining popularity. The current era still has those elements, but it's the domain of those that grew up on Brittany and American Idol now. Things didn't "have" to go mainstream in order to ensure the scene persevered, but it did so because that's what happens to generational movements. They get absorbed into the pop culture consciousness and the next generation takes what they like and mashes them up with the rest. Look @ punk, funk, folk, or any music you see advertised @ 3am in a boxset during an infomercial.

like i said before... it is the club scene evolving.

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Originally posted by chinamon evolving.

Evolution implies positive growth, and this very debate shows that not everyone thinks the changes in the scene are positive/for the better/improved from the past.

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Originally posted by chinamon like i said before... it is the club scene evolving.

More like devolving thanks to a dilution of the previous scene thanks to it's popularity.

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Originally posted by jennypie Evolution implies positive growth, and this very debate shows that not everyone thinks the changes in the scene are positive/for the better/improved from the past.

who are we to judge that it this is not positive though?

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Originally posted by chinamon who are we to judge that it this is not positive though?

I'm lamenting that the mainstream has absorbed and smothered what used to be a vibrant & colourful minority.

No doubt people enjoy things in there current form, going out is about fun after all, and clubbing has always been around.

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Originally posted by Swamper It's not just Techno. There are genre-whore/elitists for House/Trance/etc (and those have always been around). That said, one of the things I miss from the 'days of old' is when everyone was at a party and enjoyed the variety of music being played (rather than bitch about how similar the DJ's set is to the liveset they downloaded a few hours before). As with anything, scarcity makes it that much more enjoyable -- we're just spoiled with abundance and an ever increasing amount of distractions ('hey look at me I'm in a booth and I got a bottle'/'omg look at me pose for my 500th facebook profile photo').

Yeah mang.

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Und ich tanz einfach weiter...

The Hullaballoo stabbing was in 2000...

I started in Jan 2000
and I found out about it the next day at Zone so Oct 2000 it was...

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Originally posted by chinamon chinamon is INCH MOAN. LOL so fitting.