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Originally posted by Lira Rumbled Wait, since when are you American?

Since forever?

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I'm not talking about loving your country, your flag or your prime minister. That is the stuff that leads to hatred and people enlisting to get killed for no good reason. The national football team is not a symbol of the ruling class but an expression of sporting culture. The English national squad is a direct representation of how this country plays and thinks about the sport, and they are an indelible part of the country's sporting psyche. Its success and failure reflects everything from local community sports to the Premiership, the entire English philosophy of playing football which is dictated by the grass-roots culture of this nation we all contribute to and are all a part of. You can do whatever the fuck you like over in Australia, but you will not get what it means to be an England supporter.

Rhetoric. Nothing more, nothing less.

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quote:

Originally posted by bas Since forever?

I thought you were Canadian

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You're a wise man, Lira, but not today.

I don't think it's a matter of wisdom here, but I just don't see what's so special about supporting a football team. Or any team, for that matter.

My existence is irrelevant to them in any possible sense. If I died the day before the first match, they wouldn't mourn me and their performance would remain the same. Even though Kaká comes from my hometown, I've never seen the guy, and it's really bizarre that I'm allowed to take any credit (or pride) for his victories.

I understand you may feel some sort of bond through many traits you have in common with those that inhabit your country. One might say that, to be Brazilian you must speak Portuguese, eat rice and beans, love cheesebread, drink coffee, and be passionate about football (not to mention the fact that I need to live in Brazil to genuinely experience all that). But, do I need the whole package to root for a team and "feel the rush"?

If I saw a team playing really well, and I were surrounded by others supporting that very same team, wouldn't I feel a very similar rush? Do I really need to evoke images of my past and my ethnicity (?) to really "feel it"?

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Bollocks. I lived with a Brazilian for three years and I never saw him eat cheesebread.

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Originally posted by Renzo Bollocks. I lived with a Brazilian for three years and I never saw him eat cheesebread.

And I've never made rice and beans for myself either, and I don't usually drink coffee

(but I love cheesebread, OM NOM NOM!!!)

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Nice! I like these.

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Originally posted by woscar Rhetoric. Nothing more, nothing less.

Convincing rebuttal. There's a reason why Italy play defensively and Argentina play offensively, why Germany always win and England always disappoint, why Brazil produce great full-backs and Ghana produce great midfielders. Every nation has a style and a philosophy, and they don't come from nowhere and they don't change over-night.

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Originally posted by Lira I don't think it's a matter of wisdom here, but I just don't see what's so special about supporting a football team. Or any team, for that matter.

There is a British tradition of the glorious failure, which has been represented in our culture for centuries, from The Charge Of The Light Brigade to A Bridge Too Far. It's similar with the Spanish - there's a good reason their national team is nicknamed "The Armada". The glorious failure of the England team is part of our national identity, our stiff-upper-lip, our ability to persist in the face of disaster. It's the reason our TV commentators are always restrained when American ones scream wildly. It's about way, way more than just "taking pride" in whatever success we can accrue.

You've made a lot of posts recently stressing how our mindsets, attitudes and assumptions depend a great deal on our native cultures, whether it's wearing trainers to a wedding or putting your shitty toilet paper in a bin rather than flushing it. As such, you should be more aware than most that our identities are inextricable from the cultural surroundings that shaped us. The England team is a cultural product - only my country could have produced that team - and as a football fan it is part of me.

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> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Convincing rebuttal.

It wasn't a rebuttal. Just as yours wasn't an argument, just nice words expressing a conviction of yours.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J There's a reason why Italy play defensively and Argentina play offensively, why Germany always win and England always disappoint, why Brazil produce great full-backs and Ghana produce great midfielders. Every nation has a style and a philosophy, and they don't come from nowhere and they don't change over-night.

Now you're changing the subject. The original question was 'Why support your own national team?' Yes, every nation has its own approach to playing football (and sports in general) but that doesn't mean that every single person in that nation has to agree with it and support it because they have to "stick with what [they're] dealt". You're implying that an Italian football fan who hates defensive football and inclines more to the Dutch style should cheer for catenaccio because, well...he HAS to. If anything, that sort of mentality is detrimental to the overall progress of their philosophy.

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I'm with System-J, have some pride ffs

At least wait until your country crashes out before you jump ship

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I'll show support for the Yanks. I live here, after all.