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Originally posted by Kysora I'm so glad other people see this. Pirates don't cost companies or developers anything, and if they do it's hardly a fraction of what they make it out to be.

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In the United States, the survey found that 27 percent of software was pirated, adding up to an estimated $2.8 billion in lost revenue. Read More http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/...9#ixzz0pdqTz5C1

To put that in perspective, the entire laundry detergent industry rakes in close to $7 Billion per year, on average. 2.8 billion is close to a third of that. The estimation for lost revenue related to software piracy, then, was calculated in 1998

In 2005...

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The United States had the lowest piracy rate--21 percent--of any country. It was followed by New Zealand, with 23 percent, and Austria and Finland, both with 26 percent piracy rates. But the U.S. also lost the most amount of money, $6.9 billion, due to piracy.

http://news.cnet.com/Study-Software..._3-6075629.html

That's 7.14 Billion...

Hence, without software piracy, people would not have enough money to purchase laundry soap.


Really, you can't say that it doesn't have an impact. These figures are related to all software markets - not just for music production software. Music software is a niche market. It's not taking in even close to a majority of the revenues that giants like MicroSoft and Apple are taking in. They're not really in a position to take the losses that even the big markets try and stifle.

Software companies everywhere jack up the price, basically to accommodate the loss of revenue, due to piracy. It's not a problem which seems to be diminishing in terms of its financial consequence. In over a decade, it's nearly tripled. Some of this could be due to the fact that, due to piracy, software companies raised their prices and therefore had more projected revenue to lose, but it doesn't negate an impact on an industry struggling to put a product to market.

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my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

those surveys still conflate pirated software with lost revenue

Just because someone is pirating the software , it doesn't mean they would of bought it in the first place. I'm not saying this is an all or none, I just don't seem to think you realize the complexity of the manner.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad those surveys still conflate pirated software with lost revenue Just because someone is pirating the software , it doesn't mean they would of bought it in the first place. I'm not saying this is an all or none, I just don't seem to think you realize the complexity of the manner.

Those numbers get extremely muddled once you start considering how many purchases were DUE to piracy, and how many wouldn't have purchased anyway. Piracy lowers the opportunity cost, and in that regard it isn't the same "price" as a product sold at retail.

There's also the matter of pirated software running more efficiently, or without the need for authorization or a dongle. It's probably not a big deal to most, but for some people it is.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad those surveys still conflate pirated software with lost revenue Just because someone is pirating the software , it doesn't mean they would of bought it in the first place. I'm not saying this is an all or none, I just don't seem to think you realize the complexity of the manner.

The price I paid for my DAW says differently. Do I understand everything there is to know? Probably not. But I also just looked at the US market. That is the smallest part of the revenue loss.

It comes down to a rather simple paradigm, for me. Is it a product I value? Look at banks which charge over-draft protection fees, here in the U.S., alone. That is a 17.5+ billion dollar a year industry. It is a product which satisfies no value, what-so-ever, to the consumer it is sold to. It is clearly not a worthwhile product.

Music software, however, is worth something. However replicable, its value is worth something. However intangible, it is still a desirable commodity. Whether they would have purchased it, is of little importance.

A friend of mine in high-school had a saying for movies he disliked: "When it gets to the dollar theater, sneak in and see it." You're essentially saying the same thing - It's okay to steal it if you wouldn't pay for it. This begs the question, however, that if software wasn't so hyper-inflated because of piracy, would its value be commensurate with a lower price enough to actually pay for it?

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Originally posted by Beatflux Those numbers get extremely muddled once you start considering how many purchases were DUE to piracy, and how many wouldn't have purchased anyway. Piracy lowers the opportunity cost, and in that regard it isn't the same "price" as a product sold at retail. There's also the matter of pirated software running more efficiently, or without the need for authorization or a dongle. It's probably not a big deal to most, but for some people it is.

This is utter non-sense. Really. There is no way to measure it and it proposes only a meager rationalization in the form of vacant speculation.

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my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

you seem to assume my stance on the matter. I never gave it. All i said was that you cannot equate sales loss with pirated software for all the reasons mentioned before. Tell me how many of the amateurs running cracked waves would buy it if they didn't have the opportunity to steal it. 0.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad you seem to assume my stance on the matter. I never gave it. All i said was that you cannot equate sales loss with pirated software for all the reasons mentioned before. Tell me how many of the amateurs running cracked waves would buy it if they didn't have the opportunity to steal it. 0.

Since you are presuming to speak for a point of view which is contrary to mine (e.g. amateur, unlicensed waves users) your position is implied. If you're playing Devil's advocate, play it. I'm not thinking any less or more of you, regardless of whatever your position is. I'm just bored and your arguments tend to be more nuanced than most.

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my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

I never presumed to speak from any point of view. Merely pointing out the rather simple logic. And unless I have you confused with someone else on here, it is you who is the amateur doing music as a hobby. Either way it doesn't matter. You don't need to pirate to understand why people do it and to see the real harm as well as the debatable harm it does as well.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad I never presumed to speak from any point of view. Merely pointing out the rather simple logic .

Since there are no verifiable statistics for amateur, unlicensed Waves users with which to base such logic on, one has to assume, then, that you are speaking from some point of view which would allow you to have insight into the psyche of such a tortured individual. While it's completely understandable that you'd want to divorce yourself from these deadbeat malcontents, your supposed perception of them, never-the-less, illustrates their point of view; and in such a way that the logic (which conveniently enough poses antithetical conjecture to my point of view) you claim does represent their position.

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my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

You seem to not be able to make the link that one can be aware of a phenomenon yet not partake in it. I am aware that there are cracks for waves, everyone has talked about it in the industry. It would seem logical that every amateur that couldn't afford them are now using the cracks because the can. This does not take any participation on my part. IT doesn't take a rocket scientist to make the link.

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Jun-02-2010 at 00:39

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad You seem to not be able to make the link that one can be aware of a phenomenon yet not partake in it.

Now, now. I'm reading between the lines of your prose and while it stops short of an admission, if this were an interrogation, you'd be leaning on the table I was about to pull away from you to fuck with your space. Like a bad poker player, dealt one too many bad hands, the tells are piling up.



Which Waves was it, you little panty-waist punk?! I had you pegged for Sapphire but I bet you went Platinum, didn't you? Don't tell me you went Mercury TDM. You're going down, punk! You're a real pretty boy, too. The things they do in prison... Look at those dainty little piano playin' hands - real good for holding onto your jail-daddy's belt string.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

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Originally posted by EddieZilker Now, now. I'm reading between the lines of your prose and while it stops short of an admission, if this were an interrogation, you'd be leaning on the table I was about to pull away from you to fuck with your space. Like a bad poker player, dealt one too many bad hands, the tells are piling up. Which Waves was it, you little panty-waist punk?! I had you pegged for Sapphire but I bet you went Platinum, didn't you? Don't tell me you went Mercury TDM. You're going down, punk! You're a real pretty boy, too. The things they do in prison... Look at those dainty little piano playin' hands - real good for holding onto your jail-daddy's belt string.

just quoting this so that when you sober up, the evidence is still there.