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Fledz
Banned



Registered: Sep 2006
Location: London UK

They were? Interesting, I was thinking the numbers would have been far lower that far back. Apparently not.


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Old Post Sep-27-2010 13:46  Croatia
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
It's emergent gameplay from simple interaction of variables. In isolation each of the changes is very small, but because they're central to everything you do in a given moment of combat, they combine with each other for emergent patterns that are quite different to standard FPS mechanics. I don't want to get too wanky about this, but Halo, particularly MP, plays a hell of a lot different to more conventional shooters. Quakematch may be much more balanced, and I've had a hell of a lot of fun with it, but it feels almost two dimensional at times in comparison. Halo has that bit of nuance about it that makes it different, and interesting. Even if you don't like it, to downplay the importance of the gameplay mechanics suggests you simply don't know the game well enough.


Well, I don’t think you’re being wanky, just seriously exaggerating the significance of something like the melee key. Like seriously, big f’n deal. Quake two-dimensional in comparison? First off let’s remember that it plays like 400% faster. This gives the gameplay more nuance; the margins for error are much smaller. The skill ceiling is much higher, inc. rocket/grenade jumping & knowing how to run thru a map backwards. Let’s remember the lack of gameplay assists, like aim or reticles the size of small African nations. There’s plenty of nuance in how you dominate weapons/armour/quad etc.

I’ve seen people play halo and I’ve played it myself and it is merely another unrealistic game of circle-strafing (just in slow mo) or long-range sniping. No, I don’t think that something as insignificant as a default melee button is something that is particularly notable, especially given that almost the identical result can and was achieved through shortcuts previously. The fact that the melee is much more useful is somewhat notable though. Also, obviously the shield mechanic is an important facet of the gameplay, I haven’t meant to play that down. I don’t happen to like it but it certainly has a big impact on how the game is played.

But you’re right, maybe I don’t know the game enough. I don’t tend to play average titles for very long

Old Post Sep-27-2010 23:12  Australia
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
I’ve seen people play halo and I’ve played it myself and it is merely another unrealistic game of circle-strafing (just in slow mo) or long-range sniping.


I gave you more credit than this.


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Old Post Sep-27-2010 23:31  England
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I gave you more credit than this.


Never give me credit!! I can only vouch for how I played it and how I’ve seen it played. Maybe i/we/they sucked really badly.

Old Post Sep-27-2010 23:40  Australia
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

Yeah, but there's so much wrong with what you're saying. How can you think you have an authority to discuss Halo's skill ceiling when you don't realise the game has grenade jumping and all kinds of climbing/jumping tricks? Or you think there's no need for navigating levels backwards? Or that combat should involve circle-strafing? Nobody circle-strafes in Halo. Nobody. Why would you even bother?

I really expected a guy who shits over conspiracy theorists for making brassy claims from total ignorance to at least have a basic understanding of what he's talking about before making such forceful and smug claims.


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Old Post Sep-28-2010 00:09  England
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Yeah, but there's so much wrong with what you're saying. How can you think you have an authority to discuss Halo's skill ceiling when you don't realise the game has grenade jumping and all kinds of climbing/jumping tricks? Or you think there's no need for navigating levels backwards? Or that combat should involve circle-strafing? Nobody circle-strafes in Halo. Nobody. Why would you even bother?

I really expected a guy who shits over conspiracy theorists for making brassy claims from total ignorance to at least have a basic understanding of what he's talking about before making such forceful and smug claims.


I can talk about halo’s skill ceiling because i’ve played the game and experienced the significantly slower gameplay, huge reticle, aim assists (on the original) and just the general ease with which you can hit people with minimal effort (PC). I did know it has grenade jumping, but never experienced it as an integral part of the DM experience, certainly not compared to the rocket jump of death from above (hey, perhaps im really wrong there). navigating a level backwards when you’re moving at a snails pace is hardly the same thing, not to mention that particular skill when done outside aint all that impressive.

I think we’re falling down on terminology as far as ‘circle’ strafing goes. Strafing that includes adjustments for aim, I consider circle strafing (whether players move in a perfectly concentric circle or not). Ie, when playing halo, the gameplay is closer to how one might avoid a quake railgun (ie unpredictable strafing movements) but inevitably when the opposition player moves somewhere you end up strafing AND making an aim adjustment, which is circle strafing imo. I don’t mean it to mean 2 players who stand there and move together in a circle, nobody does that in quake either but I still call it circle strafing.

Old Post Sep-28-2010 00:33  Australia
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

So... what? It involves a lot of moving and aiming simultaneously, therefore it's just Quake but slow? I don't get it.


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Old Post Sep-28-2010 01:02  England
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree, I don’t wish to incur your wrath any more

Old Post Sep-28-2010 01:06  Australia
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shaw
RIP



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: Intergalactic Mimosa Station

wraaaaaaaaaaaaage


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Old Post Sep-28-2010 01:11 
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree, I don’t wish to incur your wrath any more


I don't think we're arguing about the same thing anymore. You seem to be out to prove that Quake is more skillful and balanced than Halo. I'm not arguing that - I know Quake is more skilled and more balanced. However I still think you're in that myopic "pro gamer" mindset that proving a game is more skillful ends any debate on its merit. The point I'm making is that Halo plays considerably differently to other shooters, and because of the features in play at any given moment it's got more dimensions to it than most other shooters. To downplay those features suggests you've played the game as though it were Quake and essentially ignored them and the higher emergent tactics they entail.


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Old Post Sep-28-2010 02:02  England
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Spam
OMG Hai2U!



Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Mississauga, Ontario

Melee is a HUGELY important mechanic in a shooter.

That said, Halo was certainly not the first to use a melee mechanic.

Action Quake 2 had the kick mechanic, whereby you could kick a player away from you by jumping while they were "touching" you.

The bleed mechanic from AQ2 was also the precursor to health regen mechanic. Although, really, bandage mechanic was to STOP health bleed-out, the style of play of taking damage then ducking for protection to recover is exactly the same style of play seen now with shield regen and health recovery.

AQ2 was also the main inspiration for Counter Strike.

Most of Goldeneye's important addition to FPS gaming were on the single player front.


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Last edited by Spam on Sep-28-2010 at 10:40

Old Post Sep-28-2010 10:32  Canada
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