Like G-Con already said, don't rely too much on compression. If that's not you applying compression on the kick then I don't know what is. Or the sample was already like that. Even the synth sounds rather compressed. Notice how the level suddenly goes up when the kick stops at 0:26, then compresses again when the kick hits. I can definitely hear things pumping and breathing.

Listening to Trundlethump, turn everything down and try to mix at a lower volume. Like G-Con said too, everything becomes clearer and will translate better when you mix at a low volume. If you're not doing any mastering (which is totally fine, in fact prefered), make sure nothing is being compressed as you're mixing as you'll probably be undoing all the hard work you're putting in. I know there are situations where mixing into a compressor might be favourable, but it's not something I recommend unless you really know what the levels are doing. The mix shouln't even come close to 0 dB. In fact some plug-ins work best right down at -22 to -17 dB, and, with floating point internal precision, you've got absolutely nothing to lose.

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quote:

Originally posted by Atlantis-AR Like G-Con already said, don't rely too much on compression. If that's not you applying compression on the kick then I don't know what is. Or the sample was already like that. Even the synth sounds rather compressed. Notice how the level suddenly goes up when the kick stops at 0:26, then compresses again when the kick hits. I can definitely hear things pumping and breathing. Listening to Trundlethump, turn everything down and try to mix at a lower volume. Like G-Con said too, everything becomes clearer and will translate better when you mix at a low volume. If you're not doing any mastering (which is totally fine, in fact prefered), make sure nothing is being compressed as you're mixing as you'll probably be undoing all the hard work you're putting in. I know there are situations where mixing into a compressor might be favourable, but it's not something I recommend unless you really know what the levels are doing. The mix shouln't even come close to 0 dB. In fact some plug-ins work best right down at -22 to -17 dB, and, with floating point internal precision, you've got absolutely nothing to lose.

Cheers. The sample track did have sidechain compression on the synth, and the kick itself was compressed using calculated values...I used some automation to fade everything in, and once I set the max levels, the rest was controlled via cutoff filter + automation, and I was trying to add in some phrasing / crescendos to simply make the sample a little more interesting to listen to.

For trundle, I'll probably start simply by lowering the master fader some and seeing if that doesn't help. If it's loud, but balanced, it should do the trick I imagine. If not I don't mind reworking it, I'm very patient. I spent about 8 hours reworking ALL of the automations and eq's in my first track, after having put in around 80 hours initially.

Summer Snow (2nd track of mine) will most likely get a full strip and rework, as I had to do it with my first track... and they were made around the same time on the same cruddy gear.

quote:

Originally posted by theterran and the kick itself was compressed using calculated values...

What are calculated values?

___________________
Put an end to the loudness war. Don't limit or compress your mixdown until mastering; leave the master channel alone.

Contact me for mastering.

quote:

Originally posted by Atlantis-AR What are calculated values?

There are alot of ideal values for compression, depending on the thing being compressed. Most of the parameters can be quickly set using said values, based on BPM, levels etc...

Naturally you'd still want to use your ears, but being able to dial all that shit in without trial and error speeds up the process I imagine.

Doesn't really matter. Going to abandon the technical shit for awhile and just focus on messing around until I get something I like.

quote:

Originally posted by theterran I even picked up a 150 dollar recording technicians manual to help.

What's that?

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

quote:

Originally posted by theterran There are alot of ideal values for compression, depending on the thing being compressed. Most of the parameters can be quickly set using said values, based on BPM, levels etc... Naturally you'd still want to use your ears, but being able to dial all that shit in without trial and error speeds up the process I imagine. Doesn't really matter. Going to abandon the technical shit for awhile and just focus on messing around until I get something I like.

Check out "Mixing with your Mind" There's a bit on setting a compressor quickly and easily.

-Release to min, Ratio at max, Threshold to sensitive
-Set attack(optional knee + compressor type)
-set release
-set ratio
-set threshold

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

been reading this thread for a while now.
would suggest the following.

reset you cubase mixer
switch your project to 32bits
when mixing, only try to use SUBSTRACTIVE EQ (so cut and don't boost)
start mixing your drumbus first
- kick <> rest of percussion / claps, HH's etc. (this subgroup should peak around -10!!! dbfs on your master
- Mix your kick <> bass
- mix in your leads
- mix in your FX

LOW/HIGH cut EVERYTHING (except kick)
sidechain via SENDS (so put the cubase compressor on the TARGET (i.e. pads or bassline)
and use the SEND on your kick track (or ghost kicktrack) @ UNITY gain.

leave your masterbus empty and your mix should now peak somewhere between -5 <> -3dbfs
are you happy with your mix?
do a 32bit 44.1 mixdown and leave your mix alone.

Start mastering.
- load the track in cubase
- load the multiband compressor
- choose "dance master" as a startingpoint
- load the imager in the next slot, choose dance master as a startingpoint
- load the limiter in the upper POST FADER slot, load "dance master as a starting point
- load de UV22 in the last slot. (16bits "high" )
- fix your gain structure
- the less gain into the multiband, the more subtle it's compression
- don't ride your masterfader but ride your audio channel fader to change gain
- on the limiter change the input to accomodate the limiter kicking in. mix towards -0.03dbfs. since dithering might cause clipping then at 0,0

please post both your new main mix and your new master.

Good luck!

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quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux What's that?

The book I picked up is called Audio in Media by Stanley R. Alton.

very very in depth...Goes over everything from what sound is, how to define it, signal paths etc... etc...

There's stuff on room treatments, mic'ing instruments...just a plethora of good stuff...

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-InfoTra...n/dp/0534630464

@ Raphie : I'll definitely give that a try starting with trundlethump. Might take me some time as I'm going through mid-term exam time...but I'm definitely willing to go through the effort needed to get this stuff down.

Thanks much m8, and to everyone else as well.

Last edited by theterran on Oct-26-2010 at 18:02

Ok done *whew*.

Going back and comparing I think I finally understand what's being said. I always struggle with counter-intuitive stuff :S

I know that both a master and mix was requested...I'll get on the master tonight if this mix ends up sounding ok.

hats sound a little weak now...but the levels seem ok. Will keep fiddling but I think that I'm slowly starting to get it. (hopefully :S)

Trundlethump [Re-edit] by TheTA

Also applied the same method to my sylenth patch test.

Synthtest2 by TheTA

Last edited by theterran on Oct-29-2010 at 19:47

quote:

Originally posted by theterran Ok done *whew*. Going back and comparing I think I finally understand what's being said. I always struggle with counter-intuitive stuff :S I know that both a master and mix was requested...I'll get on the master tonight if this mix ends up sounding ok. hats sound a little weak now...but the levels seem ok. Will keep fiddling but I think that I'm slowly starting to get it. (hopefully :S) Trundlethump [Re-edit] by TheTA

Try cutting your kick around 150-200 Hz as it's occupying too much mixing space here. Everything but the kick could then come up in level too, especially the hats. Seriously, don't waste your time mastering. Turn your listening volume almost right down and, after listening for a while, bring it up slowly. Listen to the balance of each instrument and try to make things sound nice at a fairly low volume. Render frequently and observe what's happening in an audio editor and spectrum analyser. What it contriburing most to the level and why?

___________________
Put an end to the loudness war. Don't limit or compress your mixdown until mastering; leave the master channel alone.

Contact me for mastering.

quote:

Originally posted by theterran Synthtest2 by TheTA

Your synth is far too bass-heavy in this one. The kick could be compressed with a fast attack. Also the hats sound muddy and hardly audible, with the snare being quite buried, too. Try turning their volumes up and filtering out the low end on the synth for starters.

___________________
Put an end to the loudness war. Don't limit or compress your mixdown until mastering; leave the master channel alone.

Contact me for mastering.