quote:

Originally posted by Lolo But may I add that this does not mean we're too many people trying to put music out?

Yeah totally. There's so much good music around at the moment, which is almost entirely because it's become so easy for new musicians to get their ideas down.

It just happens to be swimming in a sea of rubbish, so it takes a bit of filtering to get the good bits out.

___________________
Stu Cox |

quote:

Originally posted by Lolo Something's happening, like a huge reset inside the music industry, and for a better good. You can see it now, or you must be blind.

Well, I was around when all of this first came about - the very reason this forum exists being that essential revolution in thinking about how music is made and promoted that began in the late-eighties and peaked in the late nineties. From my vantage point, it seems like two things are a factor. The first is that record companies and promoters, perhaps tenuously, seem to have regained control they were forced to abdicate because of the tectonic changes taking hold in the early nineties.

The second is that producers and DJ's are becoming aware of this interference along with some of the trends which caused it. It looks like people are realizing that the Superstar DJ phenomena didn't pan out as hoped, in terms of advancing the relevance of dance music as much as it allowed for a foothold with which financially dominant industry fixtures could maintain control over markets. How much of this represents a willingness to do something about it, remains to be seen.

You probably know things I don't as you're something of an insider. I've known of one DJ (who was really, really good) who just up and quit, deciding that the corruption of the scene was too rich for his blood. There seem to be a lot of these "state of the scene" blog posts, rants, et al, which take stock of the perceived short-comings that echoed his sentiments on his way out the door. Things have changed since the first damn burst and a lot of things seem more entrenched to withstand people who'd rock the boat.

For what it's worth, though, I hope you're right.

___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

Lolo I hope your right, but bare in mind a BBC documentary on a famous London art school ended with the head teacher saying about 2% of students 'made it' in art, and they were the ones that were the best husslers, networkers and salesmen and by no means the best artists.

I see this in my business. Loads of business owners I know are very big into networking, breakfast clubs and so on.

I personally cant stand all the constant music marketing - you see it on sound cloud where someone gives a 2 word bit of feedback like 'cool tunage, check out my work here', it's like damn, everyone is constantly hussling.

High profile DJ's seem to me to be just like these other business people I know, always hussling.

There's an old American ditty about this;

'He who whispers down a well, will never make as many dollars as he who climbs a tree and hollars'.

I don't see things changing on any grand scale. People with lifestyle and family to feed will always sniff out nthe best route to money / sucess, no matter what.

___________________
https://soundcloud.com/butlerrichard

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker This is sort of what I'm getting at. There are actually DJ sets (the tranceaddicts unite series) which are entirely comprised of TA Producers' work. But I've yet to find (albeit I don't spend a ton of time in the DJ promotion section) a single TA production (TA DJ/Producers including their own work doesn't count) included in a set of other people's (some of whom may have been formerly active posters, here, but are not currently) work.

I've played a TA production before, a track by NDi in one of my progressive breaks set (before he was signed, I should add). Of course, he was the opposite of most TA producers, as he was all action and no mouth.

The disparity between DJs and producers you describe is probably down to the fact that the quality of TA's DJ community is far higher than its producer community. There are probably a dozen or more TAs I'd pay good money to hear play in a club, but there aren't many TA productions I'd want to hear in that club.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Even though, as I already pointed out, the popular perception of the producer forums is wrong

I don't think it's wrong at all.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I've played a TA production before, a track by NDi in one of my progressive breaks set (before he was signed, I should add). Of course, he was the opposite of most TA producers, as he was all action and no mouth. The disparity between DJs and producers you describe is probably down to the fact that the quality of TA's DJ community is far higher than its producer community. There are probably a dozen or more TAs I'd pay good money to hear play in a club, but there aren't many TA productions I'd want to hear in that club.

Was that the "Heart of Darkness" set?


I find the qualitative comparison between DJ's and producers implausible. No one, in their right mind, is diminishing the abilities of the DJ, by virtue of comparison or otherwise, here. They're entirely different sets of skills. Beyond that, I really don't know what to say to your points as they seem meant as a wholesale dismissal aimed at discouraging any further discussion that would argue, otherwise.

___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker Was that the "Heart of Darkness" set?

No, it was Close Your Eyes. I'm surprised you know about Heart Of Darkness - that was well before your time.

Also, you see tracks by guys like Subtara (Subtle) and MSZ featured in mixes semi-regularly.

quote:

I find the qualitative comparison between DJ's and producers implausible. No one, in their right mind, is diminishing the abilities of the DJ, by virtue of comparison or otherwise, here. They're entirely different sets of skills. Beyond that, I really don't know what to say to your points as they seem meant as a wholesale dismissal aimed at discouraging any further discussion that would argue, otherwise.

You can find it as implausible as you like. I haven't sat down to figure out some causality behind it yet, but I do know that the DJ Promotion section of TA has given me an enormous amount of pleasure over the last few years, while the Producers Promotion hasn't. I think it's significant that the Producers section is filled with people still learning their trade and looking for feedback, where most of the DJ sets posted are the finished article. It's not really in the interests of a signed producer to give out free tracks. Maybe there are more TA DJs than producers, so consequently there are more good DJs than good producers.

But even beyond these potential data skews, there just seems to be more competency about the DJs. The Producers section of TA is a very frustrating place to me. It's full of people I disagree constantly with, rife with musical conservatism and lethargic posters who don't go clubbing, don't keep up with contemporary music and don't finish their work. If half these guys posted the same stuff in MD they'd be chewed up and spat out in no time.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

I've played a few TA tracks. I would have played more, had there been more quality ones that fit the motives of whatever the output of that set was going to be. As per System's post, the quality thing is a big deal. Not to offend anyone as I've heard some pretty neat stuff from here, but the ratio of good track to bad is far worse than at the for sale points.

As producers, I don't know how much music shopping you do, but guys on the dj side of the coin spend a lot of time listening to bad music by professionals in order to find the good ones for what's next. The motivation to seek out an amateur production forum is probably not so high on the chart, and this is not directed at all of you but many of the productions from this forum(as well as others) are nowhere as good as the people making them would like to think they are.

The last reason why TA Djs do not use many TA producer tracks?

The majority do not fit anything going on in dance music, the majority do not fit the tastes of this board. Most of all, if no one knows who you are, make them. A lot of what djs play tend to also come from influences in relationships with other dj/producers. If some of you left your little hub of a sub forum and included yourself in some of the discussions not involving yourself, I can guarantee that the plays from this section would go up drastically.

If you wait for them to search you out, you will wait forever. They don't have to, because there are 20 others just as good (if not better) than you filling their in boxes with stuff.

I'll use a guy like MSZ as an example. I've never played any of his tracks because they never really fit the mood of the sets i was making at the time. He still always took the initiative to send tracks, comments, and so on. It also seems to be working for him.

If you want to be heard and have people play your music, the work is not done when you upload it and make a thread. If you think so, you are even "lazier" than those lazy talentless djs.

I'm drunk, i hope i wrote this in English.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J No, it was Close Your Eyes. I'm surprised you know about Heart Of Darkness - that was well before your time. Also, you see tracks by guys like Subtara (Subtle) and MSZ featured in mixes semi-regularly.

I've listened to that one - twice, I believe, but not as extensively as your Epic House trilogy, which brought back the good old days. I still need to hear your most recent D&B entry but I heard the last.

If you have a link handy for Close Your Eyes I'll snag that, as well.

What I'll say is that a lot of the better productions I've heard are made by posters who DJ as well as produce. Lews, MSZ, Nemesis and Alfi come to mind. My past personal experience has been that DJ'ing helps develop production skills.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You can find it as implausible as you like. I haven't sat down to figure out some causality behind it yet, but I do know that the DJ Promotion section of TA has given me an enormous amount of pleasure over the last few years, while the Producers Promotion hasn't. I think it's significant that the Producers section is filled with people still learning their trade and looking for feedback, where most of the DJ sets posted are the finished article. It's not really in the interests of a signed producer to give out free tracks. Maybe there are more TA DJs than producers, so consequently there are more good DJs than good producers. But even beyond these potential data skews, there just seems to be more competency about the DJs. The Producers section of TA is a very frustrating place to me. It's full of people I disagree constantly with, rife with musical conservatism and lethargic posters who don't go clubbing, don't keep up with contemporary music and don't finish their work. If half these guys posted the same stuff in MD they'd be chewed up and spat out in no time.

Maybe we're a little closer in agreement than I previously thought. I wish I had more time to explain this, but it will have to wait until tomorrow. And nice post, Jay.

___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

I actually read this section quite a bit, I'm just too embarassed to post here.

o snap msz talk about.

i wont really chime in, because i have nothing much to say regarding this topic lol, derp. To me, music is all about passion, and a feeling translation so as long as youre making that, and it translates to others i think its cool whatever you're making. everyone has their likes and donts, and can give reasons why. im still very much learning, and about every 2 weeks i want to give up, its a constant cycle, my life is not in pristine shape atm and i doubt i could hustle a career ever. im pretty glad i didnt give up yet because i seem to alwatys be getting better, ill post up a mistique music preview in the MP to showcase my latest(which they're very cool with it seems). im trying to dig deeper in older tracks, they see to have a profound effect on me.

quote:

Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay I actually read this section quite a bit, I'm just too embarassed to post here.

That's part of the problem.

I've already posted, in this thread, that producers, here, tend to suffer from a little self-induced myopia. The result is a feedback loop where we can give each other often meaningful input that allows for improvement but DJ's can have a completely different take on it that is just as important; that all too often fails for being communicated.

My suggestion is that when you hear something you consider neat (not that you haven't) let the producer know and try to get to know producers in their learning continuum. I know it takes time away from other things but if people can relate to you guys, a little more, I suspect, over time, people can start developing music that is better tailored to the tastes of this board that still agrees with their artistic integrity.

___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

Great post, Jay.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker If you have a link handy for Close Your Eyes I'll snag that, as well.

Stu has it perma-hosted somewhere. If you PM him, he should be able to help you out. Although I really need to update those old posts with his new links, so this thread should be motivation for that...

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/