honest question:

why do you think several of the tracks on the soul jazz record were included even though they don't have TB303, and thus supposedly aren't acid. didn't that ever confuse you?


this is a record with a big fucking "ACID" written on it. And it's a "definitive" set.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec ok, fair enough, still wrong. by this you definition you would have to call the track something ridiculous like 'bollyacid' or 'carnatic acid' or 'indo-acid'

I've no idea what genre that shit is supposed to be in the first place, but I quite like "Acid Raga".

quote:

There you go, you said acid house history depends on the use of tb-303 is in the chicago house scene. thanks, that is what i've contented all along.

I think you need to read back on what we've actually been arguing about.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

wasnt this the discussion?
1. acid house (or whatever else acid genre) doesnt need to have a 303?
2. track with a 303 doesnt have to be acid house (or whatever else acid genre)?
3. hence acid=/=303?

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec honest question: why do you think several of the tracks on the soul jazz record were included even though they don't have TB303, and thus supposedly aren't acid. didn't that ever confuse you?

No, because the cover clearly says "experimental house". And no, that's not a genre. It's an adjective combined with a noun, creating what we call a "description". The compilation is basically an anthology (and not definitive, because the inlay essay itself notes significant records that don't appear) of second-wave Chicago house, at the point where the scene cut loose from its disco origins. The cover clearly states "1985-1995", and we all agree that acid house didn't exist in 1985. There are, as I recall, also a couple of less canonical later records included which were intended to show where the Chicago scene went after acid house exploded across the Atlantic.

I think your position stems from how all this second wave, simulacra-house got caught up in the "acid" hysteria, and for a while almost everything out of Chicago was being labelled acid just because the term was so bankable. Like a lot of genre labels, there was much etymological confusion at the start that has since smoothed out.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J No, because the cover clearly says "experimental house". And no, that's not a genre. It's an adjective combined with a noun, creating what we call a "description". The compilation is basically an anthology (and not definitive, because the inlay essay itself notes significant records that don't appear) of ...

So you really think that they would choose to put several tracks without the TB303 on a record that's literally called ACID? Why would they even do that? Why not call it CHICAGO then? I didn't say it as definitive, that's what it says on the sticker. Sorry. not making sense. Occam's razor. simplest explanation is on a big record called ACID, hand picked by a bunch of phenomenal A&R people, the tracks are most likely acid.

Also you if you contend that the non tb303 tracks are somehow the mysterious 'experimental house' tracks, and experimental is used as an adjective then you'd have to admit that the tb303 tracks aren't experimental.

Come on, dude.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J ... second-wave Chicago house, at the point where the scene cut loose from its disco origins.

Yes, acid house. Hence the big ACID.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I think your position stems from how all this second wave, simulacra-house got caught up in the "acid" hysteria, and for a while almost everything out of Chicago was being labelled acid just because the term was so bankable. Like a lot of genre labels, there was much etymological confusion at the start that has since smoothed out.

No, it was all called acid before the hysteria, and the bankable part of it was the TB303 sound, which is why people like you think that's what the word means.

Last edited by nefardec on May-12-2011 at 18:13

I'm willing to say that it's acceptable to call the sound of the tweaking tb303 'acid' (though I personally would never say this), if you admit that there are acid house tracks that don't use TB303, and that acid house is a movement.

No reason it can't be both, it's just a word.


but I still think it's more correct to say the technique is acid, whether it's a 303 or drum machine, or a sampler, or whatever.

Last edited by nefardec on May-12-2011 at 18:27

it has to be the drugs. how can a sound be acid to begin with? music doesnt taste nor does it have PH. first came the drugs, then came the genre-name. same with psychedelic rock. it became that because that was the music that was played at the events of where people where psychedelic lol. you could use trance as example too!

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec Also you if you contend that the non tb303 tracks are somehow the mysterious 'experimental house' tracks, and experimental is used as an adjective then you'd have to admit that the tb303 tracks aren't experimental.

Why? It says AND, not OR. What a bizarre insistence.

The title does not define the content. Here's another renowned Soul Jazz compilation which I own:



Shall we go through the same process? Title says dub, content is actually mainly dubstep. Subtitle says "future dub", future dub isn't actually a genre. However, the dubstep on the comp can be described as future dub.

You're really hanging on by the fingernails here. Strawmanning me badly, trying to twist my dismissal of Phuture as musicians into a proclamation of their ignorance, failed attempt to shift the debate goalposts, now this bizarre reliance on the cover design of a 2005 compilation to define an entire genre.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by clay it has to be the drugs. how can a sound be acid to begin with? music doesnt taste nor does it have PH. first came the drugs, then came the genre-name. same with psychedelic rock. it became that because that was the music that was played at the events of where people where psychedelic lol.

yeah i mean it is either way. the question is after the word came up, what it came to denote.

quote:

The second generation House sound probably began with the international success of Phutures's "Acid Tracks" a hugely influential record, which captured the extreme spirit of the House scene's most ardent adherents, the hardcore dancer in Chicago, who variously experimented with LSD, acid psychedelia and new designer drugs like Ectasy. Frankie Knuckles has been careful not to sensationalise the influence of drugs. "Today there is more psychedlic sound. Acid is probably the most prevelant drug on the scene, but House is no druggier than any other scene".

http://www.globaldarkness.com/artic...icago_house.htm

wonder what drugs were used when they came up with psychedelic trance. must have been powerful stuff. chemicals and organic shit mixed up i guess.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Why? It says AND, not OR. What a bizarre insistence.

yes... that's why all the tracks on there are both experimental, and acid house. thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The title does not define the content. Here's another renowned Soul Jazz compilation which I own:

That doesn't mean anything. You can't just make a bullshit rule out of thin air about a supposed method that one label uses to name ALL of their records.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You're really hanging on by the fingernails here. Strawmanning me badly, trying to twist my dismissal of Phuture as musicians into a proclamation of their ignorance, failed attempt to shift the debate goalposts, now this bizarre reliance on the cover design of a 2005 compilation to define an entire genre.

I would say your assertion about soul jazz nomenclature techniques is quite a bit more bizarre.

My point doesn't at all rely on that cover, but it is worth bringing it up, since the express purpose of that record was in fact to define the genre.