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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On It will never happen though.

That is a good thing. Libertarianism and Ron Paul is about as far away from this movement as anything or anyone could be. It is a utopian ideal that is akin to anarchism, except wrapped in the conservative ideals of "small government" and "personal freedom".

It is not what this country needs, or any country needs.

It's true enough that purposefully less government would inevitably lead to corporate fascism the likes of which futurism has held for years.

But just the same, I believe our generation is (hopefully) going to have a hard time swallowing the traditions of the past; Primarily, the liberal rights that should be relinquished from government involvement that libertarianism has been the seemingly sole voice for, for years. Namely, impartiality of government in sex, gender, race, economic status, etc. The dissolution of marriage as a state-recognized fertility industry, tax exemption for religious institutions, and the recognition of corporations as entities with rights to be bargained over the cost of individual citizens. None of these things seem possible with an ever-encroaching government, in lieu of the vanguards of unitary entitlement through surveillance and profiling.

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Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On I find it so very interesting that time and again the whole "they have no goals" thing is being parroted on the news and radio. Seems a very fearful gasp by media corporations to me.

Well sure, they (meaning TPTB) have to paint the mob as a bunch of immature children who have nothing better to do than demolish everything around them for no reason. If they actually informed about their motivations and deeper societal causes, the risk of spreading it further would rise significantly.


As for the question in the OP, personally I'm convinced there will actually be massive and violent uprisings pretty much all around the developed world in the near future. The Wall Street protests aren't the start of a revolution more than Greece isn't the start of the big economic meltdown in Europe. They are both first visible symptoms of something much larger and systemic, which is now just beginning to fully unfold.

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Originally posted by GoSpeedGo! Well sure, they (meaning TPTB) have to paint the mob as a bunch of immature children who have nothing better to do than demolish everything around them for no reason. If they actually informed about their motivations and deeper societal causes, the risk of spreading it further would rise significantly.

The "risk" of spreading it? Don't make me laugh. Do you have any idea how much corporate money is being poured into spreading this little movement at this very moment?

If those in power wanted to put a stop to these little protests, it would be a trivial matter. At this point, however, that's the last thing they want. They'll continue to allow these protesters to play out their little fantasy, unaware that they are serving the very interests they intend to oppose.

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Originally posted by GoSpeedGo! Well sure, they (meaning TPTB) have to paint the mob as a bunch of immature children who have nothing better to do than demolish everything around them for no reason. If they actually informed about their motivations and deeper societal causes, the risk of spreading it further would rise significantly. As for the question in the OP, personally I'm convinced there will actually be massive and violent uprisings pretty much all around the developed world in the near future. The Wall Street protests aren't the start of a revolution more than Greece isn't the start of the big economic meltdown in Europe. They are both first visible symptoms of something much larger and systemic, which is now just beginning to fully unfold.

Lulz. The idealism of youth!

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Originally posted by GoSpeedGo! Well sure, they (meaning TPTB) have to paint the mob as a bunch of immature children who have nothing better to do than demolish everything around them for no reason. If they actually informed about their motivations and deeper societal causes, the risk of spreading it further would rise significantly. As for the question in the OP, personally I'm convinced there will actually be massive and violent uprisings pretty much all around the developed world in the near future. The Wall Street protests aren't the start of a revolution more than Greece isn't the start of the big economic meltdown in Europe. They are both first visible symptoms of something much larger and systemic, which is now just beginning to fully unfold.

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Originally posted by Arbiter The "risk" of spreading it? Don't make me laugh. Do you have any idea how much corporate money is being poured into spreading this little movement at this very moment? If those in power wanted to put a stop to these little protests, it would be a trivial matter. At this point, however, that's the last thing they want. They'll continue to allow these protesters to play out their little fantasy, unaware that they are serving the very interests they intend to oppose.

Not sure if serious...








Honestly, I think there's a limit to the complexity through which conspiracies can maintain their cohesion as there are limits to the tolerance for both internal and external chaos those implementing such designs can withstand. I'll stop short of saying either of you are wrong about your respective theses, but I don't see myself arguing for them, either. Maybe I'm in denial but I remember having such conversations with a friend of mine, years ago, with his perspective as an anthropologist coloring his Path to Rome's Fate speech.

It was almost a demoralized resignation to the worst of all possible scenarios. I was never quite sure if it was the pot arousing his paranoia or the half-fifth of bourbon depressing his outlook. It was as grim then as it is, now, and I wondered sometimes, while he was cleaning his SKS, if he didn't actually hope for it.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

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Originally posted by EddieZilker Honestly, I think there's a limit to the complexity through which conspiracies can maintain their cohesion as there are limits to the tolerance for both internal and external chaos those implementing such designs can withstand.

Collective action requires neither "design" nor "conspiracy"; simple economic incentives will do. These protests as something that the general public has shown a willingness to consume, and that makes them valuable.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Collective action requires neither "design" nor "conspiracy"; simple economic incentives will do. These protests as something that the general public has shown a willingness to consume, and that makes them valuable.

I think there are limitations applicable to wide-spread dissatisfaction being purposed for consumption. I'll grant you that it's a ready-made "product" but it is still social outcry that isn't necessarily answerable to the media's traditional feedback loops and echo chambers. In fact, it takes issue with much of the media's practices and, furthermore, is administered by people who are no less savvy than the typical PR gurus who have participated in styling news coverage so as to put corporate interests in a more favorable light.

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Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

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Originally posted by GoSpeedGo! Well sure, they (meaning TPTB) have to paint the mob as a bunch of immature children who have nothing better to do than demolish everything around them for no reason. If they actually informed about their motivations and deeper societal causes, the risk of spreading it further would rise significantly. As for the question in the OP, personally I'm convinced there will actually be massive and violent uprisings pretty much all around the developed world in the near future. The Wall Street protests aren't the start of a revolution more than Greece isn't the start of the big economic meltdown in Europe. They are both first visible symptoms of something much larger and systemic, which is now just beginning to fully unfold.

you should have wrote 1 more paragraph after that explaining to us the benefits of homeopathy.

It is fairly clear that a different approach needs to be taken on capitalism across the globe if there is to be any sort of peaceful coexistence between all nation states.

Capital markets as they stand now have gone from something that was a bad idea and prone to problems in the first place to an outright scam. Markets are no longer dictated by any tangible assets and are frequently rocked by the emotions and fears of wealth holders. Capital is raised solely for the sake of raising more capital, and it is moved around with impudence towards even the nations that the markets exist in. Globally connected economic systems have allowed wealth generation to rise above national interests and has let the barons of capital dictate national policy from a seat of ethereal strength.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby That is a good thing. Libertarianism and Ron Paul is about as far away from this movement as anything or anyone could be.

actually, ron has come out in favour of it because of the apparent "anti-fed" elements.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN actually, ron has come out in favour of it because of the apparent "anti-fed" elements.

Ugh.