quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney never said you were not entitled to your standard. And yes, i suppose you could say I favour better made music. That fits the criteria of elitism. Thank god there are enough musicians that also have an aesthetic that is better , more refined and more valuable as art. Elitism is only bad when used to prevent or dissuade others in sharing something you love.

Da Vinci used egg yolk in his paintings.

Get over yourself

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i used shit in my productions earlier obtaining shit productions somehow.

I can't be arsed reading through seven pages so I will butt right in with my opinion. The worst thing a new producer can do is aspire to be/sound like/suck up to anyone else. And secondly , not to be drawn into what to 'use'. That argument is now boring.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Da Vinci used egg yolk in his paintings. Get over yourself

your the one with the fucking issue. My standard is quite logical, defensible and reasonable. I don't blame you for your standard. I haven't criticized you either so fuck off.

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quote:

Originally posted by derail Okay, fine. I guess I'm trying to understand why you're singling out EDM - following your logic, what is any genre these days "adding to the musical canon" besides "production"? In any case, my point is that whether or not the only thing being added is production, a lot of listeners don't care about it. For me, if a song doesn't have a strong melody, it can be as original and creative as it wants, production-wise, and it's not going to mean a thing. On the other hand, if it's just a guy with an acoustic guitar, same "production" as has been heard a billion times, but playing a great melody - yeah, I'd much rather spend my time listening to that. And that's fine - we all like what we like. Some people like certain sports, some people like certain foods, some people like new production techniques. Each to their own.

i am not singling out EDM. This pretty much applies to all western music. If anything, it was a compliment in that EDM is really one of the few types of music doing anything new. Melodies are important i never said otherwise, The point is that what ever you go with , it is a derivative of something else. If anything, it should be liberating for most. Carte blanche to be uncreative.

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quote:

Originally posted by adi_hanson I can't be arsed reading through seven pages

Noob (for minimal post per page view)

The thing is

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Da Vinci used egg yolk in his paintings.

What the cock does that have to do with the price of fish? It was a commonly used ingredient in paint during the renaissance.

L4C actually has a point about the melody thing, but art is always contextual (and every paint stroke in every color has technically been made but painters keep coming up with new and interesting paintings due to their place in space and time so same goes for music) so as long as people keep (re)inventing their will always be new dance music.

The biggest problem (and now to bring these points nicely back on track) is that too many producers focus on gimmicks or tricks or novelties at least in the popular arena; listen to any SHM, Avicii, SVD, EC twins, etc and you'll hear the same aesthetic elements again and again. Absolutely zero creativity in terms of doing something new, then combine that with mind-numbingly basic melodies (I shudder to even call them that) and you have music that is nothing but aesthetic.

The irony is, that if melody has all been done, then aesthetic is what we rely on and at least in popular terms is going nowhere.

Personally, I don't care if melodies are being re-hashed or have been done before, it about using them in context and frankly I doubt I've heard 0.1% of all the possible usable melodies that could be used in a 128bpm track, so bring them on (but from a technical standpoint L4C is right).

So, the advice pertinent to the thread is not to get hung up on creating what others are doing right now just to copy them; good as a learning tool but truly terrible for creativity advancement or the quality of your output.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King There's nothing wrong with using presets. As long as you use them to make a good song. You can make and tweak and design as many fucking sounds as you want, but if your melody and arrangement and creativity are not there... There's no point! Make good music, with whatever you have. I hate this elitist shit going on online where if you don't design your own sounds than you suck.. Well avicii is making millions and touring the world.. And he uses prests in almost all his productions... He's doing something right Are you going to criticize bethovens work because he didn't invent cellos?

You will always find this attitude about presets, I suppose it will never go away. Entry level producers shouldn't be worrying so much about sound design, they should be focused on making music. Getting bogged down in sound design will just slow you down.

Nothing wrong with using presets, just make sure you are able to tweak them a bit to fit into the song properly. Using presets is certainly not a "mistake". There is merit in learning how to create your own sounds, but with thousands of presets out there, what you create is not going to be any better. If sound design is your thing, great, go for it. If not, don't worry about it, it won't hurt you.

You should at least know the basics of synthesis, it would be a mistake not to understand that. You can tweak a preset enough that it becomes your own. You can add external effects as well.

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there seems to be some confusion regarding my view on melody. As rann pointed out, it isn't that i do not think it is important, i am just saying that there is nothing new melody wise in EDM or any other style. So you are using something already done in a new context which is usually part of some aesthetic which is why i place a certain premium on someone that is able to provide the basics but also a style and palette that is unique and makes you go what ??

that is what separates artists like noisia from some artists that have nothing really. How many threads regarding how to sound like Justice, daft punk, noisia. Granted justice used some presets i suppose but it was mr oizo's production that made them who they are. Same melodies by Avicii and you have nothing.

When someone exciting happens in EDM, it is always a shift in production aesthetic. You might hate dubstep , i sure do but when those first few tracks showed up , there was something there that was different and made you want to know what was going on. At least that is how I operate.

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"This is why Superman works alone." GC
old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
Mad For Brad's gay little contest

Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Jan-06-2013 at 02:34

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney When someone exciting happens in EDM, it is always a shift in production aesthetic. You might hate dubstep , i sure do but when those first few tracks showed up , there was something there that was different and made you want to know what was going on. At least that is how I operate.

True indeed, aesthetics. Sound design and new production tricks, creative use of FX, percussion arrangements. I'm not a fan of dubstep, but I'm learning to appreciate it some. I am to the point where I want to dissect that sound and know how it's done. I don't mind when a track incorporates a little of everything, a bit of dubstep, breaks, electro, house, euro dance. What I'm hearing now is creative and eclectic. Listening to Tiesto club life and Nicky Romero Protocol Radio lately.

Innovators are rarely newcomers. Innovating usually comes along after years of producing, not something beginners should be concerned about. Most of us, 99.9%, won't ever innovate anyway. We just try to do the same thing in a new and unique way.

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See melody as a checkerboard, het landscape has been set and all possible moves have been identified, it's just like Chess, no suprises, just predefined chains of events.

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melody is just another preset

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney that is what separates artists like noisia from some artists that have nothing really.

I listened to a number of Noisia tracks on youtube, and now I'm confused. I'm hearing different types of distortion, some reverse audio, some standard production techniques (drops, changing drums to half-time feel), but nothing that many other artists haven't done before.

How is combining a standard set of production techniques in a slightly different way, different to combining a standard set of notes in a slightly different way?

From where I'm standing, I can't see how any artist in any style is doing anything "new", whether we're talking melodies or production techniques.

For me, the Noisia tracks I listened to gave me nothing catchy to get stuck in my head - I couldn't hum anything in the tracks I listened to today. I'd file them closer to Squarepusher's stuff, or BT's more production-focussed efforts...in my experience producers when they're focussing on production techniques don't spend much time on melodies...