If we give you some sort of prize or medal/reward type thing, can we stop arguing?

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Hybridized

It's impossible to fairly assess the damage/good mp3's have done to the music industry, it is simply a question that cannot be answered. You have one side of the fence that argues illegal mp3 filesharing is outright stealing and offers no advantage whatsoever to the artist, while others maintain that it is free advertising. I, on the other hand (among many) see it as a little bit of both, whether it is hurting or helping the industry I cannot say, but i would be inclined to say it helps *at least* labels which primarily push material on vinyl. People who would buy the vinyl normally aren't going to be happy with a half ass 'mp3' copy so there is no lost 'market' there, at least not in my eyes so it only serves as a vehicle for advertising (for the most part). CD format (e.g. 'listening') music may indeed have experienced a downturn since the advent of wide scale filesharing, while some artists may have experienced an increase in music sales, but if you look at labels as a whole its more conceivable to see a decrease in sales. A lot of stuff pushed through as music is .. hardly that... and if you can freely sample it on mp3 then its not as likely to be bought. Not a single label releases nothing but stormers soooo... its not hard to stretch your imagination a bit and see a connection there.

Not bringing up anything new in my 'statement' just kind of my spin on the situation. There simply isnt any data available that prove mp3s are killing the scene or helping it.. too many variables, its entirely subjective.

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Originally posted by SuperFarStucker It's impossible to fairly assess the damage/good mp3's have done to the music industry, it is simply a question that cannot be answered.

I will admit that as a whole, it will be difficult to prove one way or the other until maybe a few more years from now.

The dance music industry as a whole is not quite as big as the pop music culture, so if things like seeing Bonzai fold keep happening, we may indeed have the evidence in just another year or two. I seriously doubt that dance labels can simultaneously survive the loss of sales due to mp3 and a downturn in the economy (like we're currently experiencing) as compared to some of the major pop labels.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag What, that theft is wrong? That record labels are being hurt due to the theft of their music?

But where are your figures to prove this, afterall as many people here say, without mp3s they wouldn't have bought records, are the labels gonna turn the money down cos its come from sum1 who dl an mp3 then, as a moral stand ? no fucking way will they, so in theory, without the 'boom' of mp3s helping ppl get off rap music & stuff, most trance artists would be nobodies doing nothing with themselves, and working in supermarkets or something

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Originally posted by ferrycorstenfan But where are your figures to prove this, afterall as many people here say, without mp3s they wouldn't have bought records, are the labels gonna turn the money down cos its come from sum1 who dl an mp3 then, as a moral stand ? no fucking way will they, so in theory, without the 'boom' of mp3s helping ppl get off rap music & stuff, most trance artists would be nobodies doing nothing with themselves, and working in supermarkets or something

OK, say pre-Napster there were 2 million ppl worldwide BUYING records and CD's. If you say that due to mp3's, you've quadrupled the number of people involved to 8 million. You increased the number of POTENTIAL customers, but because the extra 6 million aren't all paying customers, you're really not that much better off than with the original 2 million. If you factor in the number of ppl in the original 2 million that resort to filesharing, you're likely to have LESS than your original customer base than you had pre-Napster.

A very large majority of artists are still holding down day jobs in addition to releasing tracks ya know. There isn't much money for smaller artists, so very few are making their living strictly as artists.

If you ask a DJ like Armin or Tiesto, they'll say that mp3 has helped them, but it's primarily due to the exposure that enables them to get more gigs worldwide, which pay them SIGNIFICANTLY MORE than any sort of record sales would garner for them.

If you ask someone who primarily releases tracks as an artist and is not a DJ (or not a very big name DJ), I'm sure you'll get a very different opinion.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag But I do believe there are a significant number of ppl out there that have no intention of ever buying anything that DO download rips of individual songs that DO have an impact on sales. [...] I'm sorry if my opinion turns you off, but I stand by my opinion that labels are being hurt by those who have no intention of ever purchasing the tunes they steal.

People who have no intention of ever buying anything couldn't possibly impact sales. By definition they don't impact sales, thus whether or not they download rips of songs they weren't intending to buy is irrelevent. Contradictions like this, which for some reason you stated twice within a single post, make it hard for me to take the rest of your argument seriously.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag If you ask someone who primarily releases tracks as an artist and is not a DJ (or not a very big name DJ), I'm sure you'll get a very different opinion.

The following is excerpted from an i:Vibes interview with trance producer GTR. As it happens he primarily releases tracks as an artist and is not a very big name DJ:

i:Vibes: A question we ask to all we interview is what their opinions on digital media (e.g. mp3s, etc) is?

Gareth: Wicked. Although a lot of the music industry hate mp3s, I think they’re great. For example, I’ve finished tracks off on a Friday afternoon, sent an mp3 across to my friend and Godskitchen resident Jon O’Bir, and he’s burnt them to CD and played them at CODE that very night! How could you have done that a few years ago?

I also don’t have any real issues with people swapping tracks, it’s a great of evaluating tunes before buying them and fantastic for new producers who want to get exposure.

Of course, there are some people who take the piss – and by this I mean people who don’t buy ANY albums because they download them or, or DJs who download tracks and play them out rather than buying them. This does takes the piss in my option – and although I don’t agree with the way the music industry points the finger solely at mp3s for falling sales – the people who take a lot out and don’t put anything back in are undoubtedly doing some damage, and spoiling it for the majority of people who use mp3s sensibly.

However, in any case, mp3s aren’t going to go away – the cat is well and truly out of the bag and will never be going back in, so the industry needs to stop moaning and work within the new environment. Simply telling people not to download music is madness – as if anyone listens? Also trying to create new formats that can’t be played on computers is only likely to piss people off even more. Sasha has the right idea – making every part of every track on Airdrawndagger available to download was a brave move, but one that shows he appreciates that mp3s are here to stay so we need to work with them, not against them.

I do not believe MP3 is this main culprit behind Lighning records' demise. That's the PC thing to say at the moment. For one thing, MP3's/the internet are responsible for much of their rise in popularity over the last few years. MP3 is the scapegaot at the moment. A Britney Spears album fails to meet sales expectations and the RIAA screams "It's those mp3's!!", failing to recognize factors like the failing economy or the fickle demographic that buys the albums. There's more to this Lightning records' thing than meets the eye - putting the blame on MP3s is the easy way out.

Not to mention... with trance music, many of the people who download stuff (on this board even) would not buy the vinyl even if MP3 technology was not available. Most songs are not released on CD single anymore. I don't own a turntable, I live in an apartment so I won't be going out and buying one (my landlord would not like it much) and I like music that I can listen to in my car. So unless these trance labels want to start making their music more accessible to the masses, they should stop complaining - Most DJ's still rely on vinyl, so where's all this money loss coming from? This confuses me.

Plus, back when I listened to alternative and pop music, most of the stuff I listened to I taped off the radio - I guess I've been doing the illegal sharing thing for about 20 years now

DJ Maytag - where in Madison is your store located? I used to live there...

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Originally posted by starglider People who have no intention of ever buying anything couldn't possibly impact sales. By definition they don't impact sales, thus whether or not they download rips of songs they weren't intending to buy is irrelevent. Contradictions like this, which for some reason you stated twice within a single post, make it hard for me to take the rest of your argument seriously.

OK, so what about the shady DJ's that download rips and burn to CD without ever intending to buy the vinyls? They're not only impacting sales by using material that they should be buying, but they're often even profiting from it!

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Originally posted by torontotrance I argue because I think mp3's are worth something in some regards..tho i refuse to download albums.

^ *Agrees*

Downloading Albums is bad for your soul!!
You will burn in hell if you do!

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Originally posted by starglider Of course, there are some people who take the piss – and by this I mean people who don’t buy ANY albums because they download them or, or DJs who download tracks and play them out rather than buying them. This does takes the piss in my option – and although I don’t agree with the way the music industry points the finger solely at mp3s for falling sales – the people who take a lot out and don’t put anything back in are undoubtedly doing some damage, and spoiling it for the majority of people who use mp3s sensibly.[/i]

THIS is what I'm talking about. Sure, mp3's are great if I wanted to send a song I wrote to a big name DJ that could play it. But considering that cases like this are miniscule compared to all the all out blatant stealing going on.

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