quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Unlike the demolition/collapse, which is debatable so I wont bother arguing, my points above mentioned are not debatable, they're acknowledged, on the record, FACTS. You cant DEBUNK that while terrorists attacked on 9/11 and 7/11, government agencies were doing terrorist drills precisely at the same time. Are you saying that was a lie?

no, what im saying is that you guys seem to put an AWFUL lot of weight to coincidental occurences that dont prove ANYTHING. i simply cannot follow the trains of thought (and leaps of illogical faith) some people on here make.

i think its simply ludicrous that such outlandish claims can be believed when supported by virtually NO real, hard, convincing evidence. if coincidences and interpretations is all you have after 5+ years of investigation...

im more than happy to be convinced otherwise of the 9/11 events, but the more ridiculous the claim (ie "no plane hit the pentagon") the evidence supporting such a claim should be correspondingly larger.

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN no, what im saying is that you guys seem to put an AWFUL lot of weight to coincidental occurences that dont prove ANYTHING. i simply cannot follow the trains of thought (and leaps of illogical faith) some people on here make. i think its simply ludicrous that such outlandish claims can be believed when supported by virtually NO real, hard, convincing evidence. if coincidences and interpretations is all you have after 5+ years of investigation... im more than happy to be convinced otherwise of the 9/11 events, but the more ridiculous the claim (ie "no plane hit the pentagon") the evidence supporting such a claim should be correspondingly larger.

On 9/11, Pentagon/CIA had their first terrorist drills in years. And the same time SAME PLACE terrorist hit (the drill involved planes hitting Pentagon, WTC ...) and on 7/7 government agencies ran drills ON THE SAME subway stations AT THE SAME TIME that the alleged terrorists hit. And that was the first terrorist drill in subways they had in over 10 years. WOW, WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF TWO, 2! COINCIDENCES RELATING THE SAME EVENT even the SAME CLICHE NAMES (9/11, 7/7) SAME PLACES ... oh, my ... and you still cant clue in. Those f-cking coincidences, eh, once in a lifetime kind? Eh?

Watch the videos:

7-7 attacks had drills going on at the same time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B5Jltzcimc

9/11 attacks had drills going on at the same time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNjLt3vVwg

Haha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ65NwtbQic

Full radio transcript for the same 7/7 attacks by a guy who clearly identifies himself as former British intelligence agent now working for some shady security company.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpPafvtJ9GU

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

i think its simply ludicrous that such outlandish claims can be believed when supported by virtually NO real, hard, convincing evidence. if coincidences and interpretations is all you have after 5+ years of investigation...

9/11 Drills?

http://www.boston.com/news/packages...ne_exercise.htm

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...litaryExercises

Odds that the exact same terror drills (hijacked planes crashing into buildings) occurred the very same day has a probability of ZERO PERCENT.

Coincidences on 9/11 actually help to really show the truth of the events of that day. They become more of the missing pieces to bind it all together and are not coincidences after all.

quote:

im more than happy to be convinced otherwise of the 9/11 events, but the more ridiculous the claim (ie "no plane hit the pentagon") the evidence supporting such a claim should be correspondingly larger.

After 5+ years where is the footage of the plane that did crash then? It should be recorded and probably is by the many security cameras at the worlds most guarded building.

Something did crash into the Pentagon, the onus is on the government to show the proper footage to the public. They do have the footage but it seems they have something to hide otherwise we would all of seen it by now.

What's the problem really? If they tell us a story where are the facts and most importantly the FOOTAGE to back it up, again it's only been 5+ years right?

idiots. and i am finally done with this thread.

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN idiots.

Ad hominem.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN and i am finally done with this thread.

That's nice, no more trolling huh ?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

goddamn it shaolin, dont make me a liar!

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Ad hominem.

i know, and i really dont care. ive argued patiently and logically with magnetonium before, and it didnt do any good coz he just wouldnt listen. i gave him so much evidencce re WTC7 but he just ignored it and made some ridiculous leaps of faith.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z That's nice, no more trolling huh ?

im not a troll. go back into the early days of this thread and you'll find posts from me asking ogv to give me sites & information & videos. but yeah, like you im sick of going in circles with people that are otherwise quite intelligent, but simply refuse to entertain alternate possibilities whilst believing the most outlandish claims backed by the flimsiest evidence.

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN goddamn it shaolin, dont make me a liar!

Tehe .

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i know, and i really dont care. ive argued patiently and logically with magnetonium before, and it didnt do any good coz he just wouldnt listen. i gave him so much evidencce re WTC7 but he just ignored it and made some ridiculous leaps of faith.

They could say the exact same things about you. Does it really add any weight to their argument or yours .

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im not a troll. go back into the early days of this thread and you'll find posts from me asking ogv to give me sites & information & videos. but yeah, like you im sick of going in circles with people that are otherwise quite intelligent, but simply refuse to entertain alternate possibilities whilst believing the most outlandish claims backed by the flimsiest evidence.

Again, they would say the exact same things about you. I'm pretty sure we're all sick of going in circles. And no, I think we've all considered all sides and arguements. So it's a little unfair to make that assertion as an argument .

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Ignore the trolls bait ogvh5150 & Magnetonium. Don't feed the troll.

Sometimes when people can't argue facts, they argue a lie. When they can't argue a lie they poke fun and name call believing they just debunked you. All along they respond to threads like "Russia bans gay marriage, what are your thoughts?", "More crop circles found in Antarctica", "Finland bans marijuana for medicinal use" or "Face on Mars winks an eye".

They flood those threads, then they come here trying to argue like their frigging post count amounts to something.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Man, we've already gone in circles countless number of times. Do you really anything would change (for any of us) if we did it once again?

It's about the allegory of the cave. People looking at shadows on the wall not stepping out of the cave to see the world for what it really is. This is all people like him know. Let him suffer in ignorance and not bother.

You just can't reach some sheeple, err I meant people.

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Top google videos worldwide for as of Jan 31 2007

3) Loose Change, 109k views

4) America Freedom to facism, 98k

11) Terrorstorm, 56K

15) 9/11 Mysteries, 49k


300,000 views in one day!

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z They could say the exact same things about you. Does it really add any weight to their argument or yours .

there is a BIG difference between saying "i remain unconvinced" by dot-to-dot assumptions regarding apparent anomalies and coincidences, and arguing (as magnetonium did) that the photo i provided for him of WTC7 burning like a mother****** was really just a pic of the dust-cloud from WTC1/2 its stuff like that that gets me annoyed. im more than happy to say "i dont know" to questions people raise if i dont think i have anything to offer; but to so blatantly ignore evidence (like the testimony of dozens of firefighters) just makes me wonder if people really ARE after the truth. you bring me a smoking gun shaolin and you know id change my tune in an instant

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Again, they would say the exact same things about you. I'm pretty sure we're all sick of going in circles. And no, I think we've all considered all sides and arguements. So it's a little unfair to make that assertion as an argument .

possibly. however my argument through all this has been that the more extreme a viewpoint, the more hard evidence should exist to support that view. HARD evidence mind you- not dot-to-dot leaps of faith regarding exactly what might be meant by war-games or terror drills on the day in question.

ridiculously stupid and ill-conceived comments like this:

quote:

Originally posted by culorut After 5+ years where is the footage of the plane that did crash then? It should be recorded and probably is by the many security cameras at the worlds most guarded building.

are also tiresome. that people cant see the huge logical problems with such viewpoints is simply sad.

as is

quote:

3) Loose Change, 109k views

if this is the standard of examination people are putting into their views on 9/11 then all of us non-believers should really stop wasting our time. nothing like a shitty high-school assignment to educate the masses

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There was a security camera that caught the plane crashing into the Pentagon. Of course the pot heads said it looked like a missle......take a close look at the video. It's a plane. This video zooms the security cam in so that you can make out the plane. The pot head versions don't zoom in...because they want to believe there is a conspiracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8

So where did they put the missing plane then? Area 51. That's what I heard. The passengers were taken hostage quickly after landing at Area 51 and their bodies are being used to manufacture oil.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller