quote:

Originally posted by Flotser its Shanah Tova .... also this year started soooo sadly. just so unimginAble, 5 members of the same family were among those got killed in that Haifa restaurant blowing. and that 2 months old baby that was murdered by a terrorist with a gun, not even by a suicede bobmer....and all inside her own house. ofcourse its not the first time such tragedies occur... but man that year began with vary vary vary bad news...

Not to mention I heard several cars belonging to Jews in NYC had their tires slashed while the owners were in synagogue...

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Originally posted by Galapidate Not to mention I heard several cars belonging to Jews in NYC had their tires slashed while the owners were in synagogue...

yes indeed that's sad. somehow people try to get the conflict all arround the world. mainly it happens cause the people get really objective news about the conflict. but this story is now so big.
if you really go into this conflict you'll see there is much more then jews confiscating land and palistinian terror acts.
then you'll notice aswell that there are more countries involved in this conflict aswell and then you'll understand aswell why arafat never wanted and could accept the oslo agreement.
it's just a sad never ending story i'm afraid off

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Originally posted by Cyrus King I actually laugh that a person behind a computer like you is actually trying to make me feel bad... hahhhaahha.. continue your futile shit....

what's this? hypocricy?! it couldn't be.

you do this same crap all the time cyrus. dont pretend you are above it.

^LOL so true.

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Originally posted by nic01445 what's this? hypocricy?! it couldn't be. you do this same crap all the time cyrus. dont pretend you are above it.

With respect to mjusiks comments that is what i have to say. I know here and there i cause shit.. thats becuase its a reaction. But in this case.. this person is trying to make me feel like a loser.. and i laugh at it.. trying to convince me over the net about myself is just idiotic.

Stop exaggerating with "all the time".. most of the time im particiating in this forum about issues.. not name bashing like melech, viber and Mjusik do.

If you dont know mjusiks behaviour.. try searching his posts in the toronto forums.. he is here to solely cause shit...just like partyprincess..hmmm.. they are somehow very similar in nature...i wonder why

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

Actually your PM also said 'occupy' regarding the land. Either way you have a war criminal for Prime Minister.

Everyone expects Israel to return the entire area back except for the US.

For Israel to have these "defensible borders" it can only have them with a non-viable Palestinian state without territorial contiguity, control of our airspace, control of our borders, bypass roads, settlements, and disconnecting the West Bank into little islands. Your "Defensible boders" costs Palestinian lives and livelihood and Palestinian rights. I don't believe that this is the only way for defensible borders. I believe a viable Palestinian state is acheivable with Israeli secure borders. But not this way.

In case you still live in the middle ages where conquests and conquering land was the way to go, let me update your little mind:
It is now illegal to conquer land. It is a thing of the past. It is illegal under international law and world opinion. No matter what the conflict was, self defense or not, history or no history. Your historical justifications cost lives.

There were always a Palestinian people. Our ancestors lived in the Holy Land since it was called Canaan. No one said we moved out. And Palestine was a province of the Ottoman Empire starting from 1516. My great grandfather called himself a Palestinian. Negating our existence is racist and is to me as if I denied the holocaust to you. Denying the occupation is to me the same as denying the holocaust is to you. DOn't argue. You dont' know the feeling.

We have tried and still do try non-violence. But unfortunately, the only good news is bad news. Palestinians have been using non-violence for decades. Peaceful demonstrations are always quelled by soldiers spraying bullets at demonstrators and throwing gas grenades. This is well documented and was a frequent event during the Oslo years. Again, don't argue. There was even a Palestinian man once who was popular like Ghandi was popular amongst the population. Israel arrested and deported him. Dont' know where he is now.

You shouldn't be taking trees for any reason whatsoever. You're targetting civilians this way. People live off those trees. Just as if you were to destroy a farmer's only farm. He would starve. Same thing. No excuse. Why Palestinians have different coloured license plates. There is no excuse for that either. It is so the military can distinguish from Gazans, West Bankers and settlers. Again, Apartheid. There is no excuse to racist practices. No matter the reason. It is important to understand why the IOF removes olive trees??? What is this? In other words, it's important to understand why the military is stealing food and killing people. Yeah ok man. By the way you have the same mentality. Reality is, it is more important to understand why suicide bombers exist in Palestine. Not to justify it, not to condone it, not to support it, but just to understand it. Understand what drives them to do these things. I was pretty surprised the news stated the motives for the recent bombing. Revenge for the murder of her brother and cousin. I heard her cousin was her fiance by the way but I can't confirm that. Usually the news doesn't mention the motive. Strange. The more people you kill, the more their loved ones want revenge, the more suicide bombers you create.

Looks like you should be the one to examine the cause of things instead of their effects.

One more thing, I don't know if I'm going to keep replying to your posts. You are a racist. Get that through your zionist head. You are a racist. And I don't have time to waste with racists such as yourself.

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*** Sig will be edited -> see rule #5 regarding political/religious content
Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."

Look I won't argue with you, because apparently you say I shouldn't argue with you (why the hell then do you come to a political message board.. if you don't want people to argue with you, go post a weblog, or in a newspaper.. not in a forum).

And I am now told I am a racist too

I was making a point, either you didn't have a Palestinian 'people' prior to 1967, or your people where indeed part of the Arab armies that attacked Israel during and prior that year.

Don't think I deny the Palestinian people exist TODAY... I just don't think they're a very old people, 30 maybe 50 years at max. My pro-palestinian Israel/Arab professor agreed with this statement as well (much to my suprise), I don't think it is a stretch or racist to say so (my Professor was not racist eitherway, although he retained a bias towards the Palestinian).

Now on the license plate issues - licenese plates are not aparthiad! The US has 50+ different license plates.. if you drive a federal car you have a certain US government license, if you are from a certain state, you have a certain license, if you are drive an ambulance, you have a different license plate. http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/world/AS_ISRA.html

It is similar with Israel; If you are a citizen of Israel you have a certain license plate, if you are a non-citizen living in disputed territory you have a certain license plate, if you are a police officer and driving your squad car, you have a certain license plate, if you are in the army and driving a military car, you have a certain licnese plate. How is it discriminating against a categorization of people (non-citizens living in disputed terriotory) racist, if we are discriminating against another categorization of people (all citizens who serve in the military.. i.e military plates). Every country in the world does this, and so does Israel... it is of their soverighn right, and not aparthiate as it does not discriminate against its own citizens!!


"We have tried to do non-violence"...

Ok, make me believe.. give me sources.. who is that guy you mentioned that Israel arrested and was non-violent??

Who is your Nelson Mandella.. if you believe Israel is doing aparthiate act in a way you know works against it - non violence. How come I have never seen any South African suicide bombers??? They were oppressed much worse then the Palestinians ever were...

For your reference I've examined the cause of suicide bomber and terrorism in Palestinian society previously. The following link has some points I made where I conclude that Palestinian culture is to blame for suicide bombing, by explaining that other people who have been oppressed far worse and left with little options have not resort to this terror: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...&threadid=83110

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you: It is important to understand why the IOF removes olive trees??? What is this? In other words, it's important to understand why the military is stealing food and killing people.

Ya exactly why it is important to understand this... The IDF is not removing olive trees for food come on... just imagine the soldiers.. "hey I'm hungry, what should we do?" "How about we go remove some olive trees.. they have lots of food on them..".

Ya you have to understand.. understanding is a good place to draw a solution.

But you know I agree with you, I agree Israel should withdraw to secure borders alongside a viable Palestinian state. But then, what would I know.. I'm only a racist, so it must be a bad idea.

quote:

Who is your Nelson Mandella.. if you believe Israel is doing aparthiate act in a way you know works against it - non violence. How come I have never seen any South African suicide bombers??? They were oppressed much worse then the Palestinians ever were...

i havn't read the rest of the thread so this comment is a tad esoteric; Nelson Mandella was a "terrorist" and i think the USA have only given him "freedom fighter" status for the next 10 years

well i must admit one thing, i've been many times in israel and there is been allways one thing that really suprised me.
i'm not saying israeli are racist and in fact i have many israeli friends wich are allways very good to me. but i noticed the israeli don't threat foreigners in a nice way. i had conversation wich made me think "how is it possible to say things like that while the holocaust is part of your history" we dutch aren't clean aswell infact we invented the aparthiad. it's something we don't like to confess and it's something we don't talk about.
probably that's also why the netherlands is so multi cultural these days.
thing is we learned a lot from the past. we try to threat every one with the same respect no matter where they are from.
comparing aparthaid to this conflict is not right i think.
aparthaid was something really bad happening in s-a between the white and the black people. nelson mandale was certainly not a terrorist allthough his past is probably also not clean.
israel and palestina are 2 countries in war that's somethig tottaly different then aparthaid.
if one day there would be peace and the palistinian still has the same rights as they have now then we can discuse if it's aparthaid.
beside that the very bad conditions the palistinian live under is not only given by israel but also by there own authorities.
that a suicide bomber did out of revenge is indeed a suprise. most case happen cause the bombers are brainwashed and believe something there really can't be at all.
beside that it makes there family live more comfortable out of the money the families recieve for the suicide of one of there children.
i really hope the palistinian will have there state in the future and also under conditions wich are fair to them and not with a fence going true their villages and their houses.
israel needs to take steps for thatc and pull back. and the palistinian should not take only a cease fire they should start building a land so their childrens children might be able to live in the peace they deserve.
also jerusalem should get a status aparte just like monaco or andora.
in this way it stays out of the conflict and that's what such an amazing city deserves. if there would be a capital of the world then jerusalem really should be it.

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www.djfredkruger.tk

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King Stop exaggerating with "all the time".. most of the time im particiating in this forum about issues.. not name bashing like melech, viber and Mjusik do.

you are so full of shit,you have started all the recent burn fights lately.

quote:

Originally posted by Viber you are so full of shit,you have started all the recent burn fights lately.

You see people, even Viber exemplifies himself with this!

___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

quote:

Israel Sequesters Palestinian Farms West of Wall Wednesday, 15 October 2003, 9:04 am Press Release: International Solidarity Movement Israel Sequesters Palestinian Farmland West Of Wall Kicks farmers out of their orchards, claiming land is "Israel" [Occupied West Bank] Contrary to what the Israeli establishment has been saying, the government of Ariel Sharon has made another big land grab. A new order issued by the military commander of the West Bank announced to Palestinians that they are no longer allowed to be on their land west of the separation wall. The order, which was distributed in Hebrew and illegible Arabic last week, states that the land west of the wall is a closed military area and that only Israelis, those eligible to be Israelis under the Law of Return (i.e. practically every Jew in the world) or those issued special permits would be allowed to be on the land. (See below for English translation of order) The military order announcing the new restrictions, signed by Major General Moshe Kaplinski, the commander of IDF forces in "Judea and Samaria", and dated October 2, 2003, declares that lands west of the barrier are closed military zones and farmers who want access need to apply for a "long-term residency" permit. Palestinians also found at least two accompanying orders, signed by Brigadier General Ilan Paz, the head of the civil administration, and dated October 7, 2003. These orders detail how Palestinians are supposed to go about applying for the appropriate permits to be on their land west of the wall. Of course, nothing in the order guarantees that permits will be granted to these Palestinian landowners, nor even respecated if granted. The idea of applying for a permit to be on one's own land is rejected by Palestinians who have been on these lands for generations. In addition to the thousands of dunams of farmland, water wells, and greenhouses that are being isolated from their owners, thousands of Palestinians reside in 15 villages that fall between the wall and the Green Line. According to this new order, these Palestinians are "illegally" residing in their homes now. In building the Separation Wall, the Israeli government has insisted that it is not confiscating more Palestinian land and has argued against the negative impact of this wall on Palestinians by claiming that farmers with land falling on the other side (west of the wall) will have access points - openings that they can pass through into their farmlands. Since the concrete walls have been built and the fences erected, a small number of gates have been built into the barricade and a prison-like system of access to orchards for farmers implemented. Due to the random open/close schedule of the gates, however, and the harassment faced by farmers attempting to pass daily, dozens of farmers in Jayyous [Qalqilya region] had taken to camping out on their land to ensure that they could tend to their fields, while other farmers faced up to the abuse and daily attempted, sometimes successfully, sometimes not, to reach their fields. (For video footage of events at the gate in Jayyous on October 8, please see www.palsolidarity.org). For the farmers that have been camping out on their land, ISM volunteers have been helping with the delivery of food to them from the village, passing bread, water and some home-cooked meals through the barbed wire to the farmers on the other side. On Friday October 3 the gate was not opened at all for the farmers of Jayyous and Palestinians throughout the West Bank. The gates have remained totally closed since. On Monday, October 13, 2003, in Jayyous, over 30 of the farmers who were camping on their land were rounded up, their IDs confiscated and told that they could no longer be on the land, because the land was "now Israel". A 17-year-old boy, Nael Zaher Nofel, who was riding his bike near Jayyous' west gate was abducted by Israeli soldiers yesterday and has yet to be released. As opposed to Israeli government claims that the wall is a security messure, this military order is seen by Palestinians as another political move, part of a political initiative - the Seperation Wall, in Israel's overall political plan to remove them from the area, taking their land. According to Israeli State Law, land that is neglected for 3 years or more can be siezed for state use. Making it almost impossible for Palestinians to be on their land ensures long-term neglect and thus "legalized" confiscation of the land by the Israeli State. Soldiers enforcing this new order have already called it for what it is - "this land is now Israel" an Israeli soldier screamed at a Palestinian farmer in Jayyous as he forced him off his land yesterday.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0310/S00137.htm

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V